The Klingon D7 -1 reply

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akula2ssn

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#1 11 years ago

A while back, I was in a discussion about the Valdore and the whole thing about how it doesn't have torpedoes and what not. When I was doing a lot of digging on the Valdore, I ended up coming across something else that has been bugging me.

For those of you that have been playing around with Bridge Commander, you will already know that all of the Klingon D7 mods that have been made share the following characteristics. They each have a cloaking device and they each have photon torpedoes. Their disruptor armaments tend to vary from hardpoint to hardpoint.

So there are two things that have been bugging me about the D7. The first is the cloaking device. It's unclear to me that the D7 or even the early K'Tinga class had a cloaking device. While we know that the Romulan D7s did have cloaking devices, we never actually see the Klingon D7s with cloaking devices. In fact the cloaking device on a Klingon D7 was never even mentioned until TAS, which is not even considered a canon series. Even the Enterprise had a holodeck in TAS. The Star Trek 25th Anniversary game on PC didn't show cloaking devices on the Klingon D7s with the exception of one. I think the only on screen reference to the D7s recieving cloaking devices, that wasn't TAS, was in DS9. Supposedly the ship referenced in the DS9 episode was the Klothos (however the Klothos is a TAS reference) which is called a D5 in the episode, however the Klothos was a D7 in TAS. This in and of itself is complicated by the fact that in the three TMP movies where the newer K'Tinga class was shown, there wasn't any reference to a cloaking device on them, nor do we actually see them use one. I think the first time the K'Tinga was ever shown as having one was in TNG. Since the T'Ong's mission began in 2290 we can probably assume that Kronos One probably had one, but it's not certain that the Amar in TMP had one. It is also possible that Kronos One did not have a cloaking device and that the T'Ong was simply a specially fitted K'tinga. I don't remember if the battlecruisers on the VOY episode "Flashback" were shown with a cloaking device. This next part is probably not conclusive, but it at least hints that K'Tingas did not normally have cloaking devices. In Star Trek 6, when they were all on the bridge looking at the replay of the torpedo hit on Kronos One, the very first thing that came to their minds was a bird of prey. Not a D7 or another K'Tinga, but a bird of prey. This suggested to me that K'Tingas didn't normally have cloaking devices and it's not likely that the D7s were widely equiped with them if at all.

The next hurdle is the photon torpedo on the Klingon D7. The only time that I can recall seeing an actual D7 firing any kind of weapon resembling a torpedo was in TAS. However in TAS they weren't torpedoes, but disruptor bolts. At least with the K'Tinga class, the opening actually looked like a torpedo tube. However the D7's doesn't look like one. There's a large cone in the middle of it that sticks out, making it look more like a deflector dish or a large particle or energy cannon. I don't think this cone is easily visible on screen, but it is clearly visible in the actual model.




Psychokenesis

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15th October 2003

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#2 11 years ago

Intresting...

I can tell you this

The Klingon ship in Voyager decloaked and fired on Voyager. I do recall the TNG episode with the expeditionary klingons It did cloak as well.

As for the The Undiscovered Country.

I'll say this...It could not have been completely unusual for the K'tinga to have the cloak. D 7 maybe...

Consider this...The bird of Prey was considered a Romulan design. The orignal draft of Star Trek III had Commander Kruge stealing the ship. Later they just already had it.

Maybe this is why bird of preys were considered cloaked scouts... Further this is the same crew that dealt with the original bird of prey which was definitely romulan.

Scotty could have easily been refering to the old ship they refered too. Thats whether or not it was recongnise how the klingonsorignally obtained the ship.




Shintsu

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9th April 2005

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#3 11 years ago

Well I'm not entirely sure, but what is it that the Klingon ships in STII fire in the Kobyashi Maru? Those looked like D7s firing what I thought were torpedoes, but I could be wrong.




Beond_The_Grave

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#4 11 years ago

well if u look in st6 the ship turns to fire on the enterprise and the front begins to glow red like tmp torps.... plus u think ud find one "accurate" d7 if that were true right??




akula2ssn

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#5 11 years ago

Yeah, I remember reading about ST3 and the Romulan connection with the bird of prey. According to the book by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens, the early version of the script had Kruge stealing the bird of prey from the Romulans, hense the painted patterns on the wings, similar to that of Wah Chang's BOP from TOS. This connection was dropped in subsequent drafts. I kind of wonder if that's where FASA got the idea for one of their Romulan ships which has a head very similar to the Klingon BOP, or if they just got that from the fact that Klingons and Romulans had been sharing technology.

In ST2, the computer did say "Klingon torpedoes activated". I believe that all of the D7 like ships shown in the movies are recognized as part of the K'Tinga class. I think one problem is that we never really are told what a Klingon torpedo consists of. When you look at the K'Tinga and the BOP, they have that characteristic red glow or have that build up that looks like electrical arcs like in ST3. The question is are they actually a physical torpedo like the torpedo casings we see on Federation ships, or are they bolts of energy like the plasma weapon in Balance of Terror?

There seems to be some controversy among fans as to the Klingon ship shown in the VOY episode "Prophecy". I haven't seen the episode myself, but I've heard that it was identified as a D7. However, the CGI rendering that was used was actually a K'Tinga. Unfortunately the script writers didn't find out about the model in time to change the script. They apparently assumed that the Greg Jein's model was going to be reused. Some fans like to say that it was a transition ship between the D7 and the K'Tinga. Certainly plausible.

There was some debate as to whether the D7 and K'Tinga were the same class or not. My understanding is that after the DS9 episode "Trials and Tribble-ations" with the introduction of Greg Jein's rendition of the D7, that it has been generally recognized that the two are different classes of ships. From what I've heard, the ship does not have any of the K'Tinga features on it save the feather like panels on the hull. So I'm guessing that the model didn't have the twin impulse exhaust vents nor the aft torpedo launcher among other things.

I really don't have any strong opinions on any of this, but it's nice to hear what other people think. As it is, considering how long the basic D7 design has been around, not all of them are likely to have the same configuration.

Here's one cutaway of the D7 boom. Not necessarily canon, but fits nicely with how the studio model looked and if you're the kind of person that prefers making the assumption that the old D7 didn't have torpedoes. d-720cutaway.gif

Useless facts: -While the D7 was intended to be a Klingon ship and was filmed first as a Klingon ship in "Elaan of Troyius", the D7 made its first TV appearance as a Romulan ship in "The Enterprise Incident". -In "The Enterprise Incident" the Romulan D7s still have Klingon markings visible on them. -The "D7" designation was never used on screen in the original series but was the behind the scenes designation, just as Enterprise class was the behind the scenes designation of the Constitution refit during the early TMP productions. -FASA source books had the "D" in D7 as the class name "Drell". Apparently this was made official at some point in "Trials and Tribble-ations". -If you're looking for a great model of the D7, then Polar Lights released one a while ago after releasing the TOS Enterprise (also an excellent model). The Enteprise comes with Mirror Universe markings, as well as markings for the Defiant, Exeter, and Intrepid. Furthermore it comes with markings and parts for the first two pilot models and the production model. The D7 comes with markings for a Klingon D7, and some bird markings for a Romulan D7 as well as instructions for different paint schemes.




DarkTau

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#6 11 years ago

Actually, in the beginning of ST:TMP, look at the part where the Klingon D7s are engaging V'Ger. The Commander says to prepare torpedoes, and then gives the order to fire torpedoes. When he says prepare torpedoes, the "hole" in the "head" glows a reddish orange in color, and the torps are seen firing from that spot.




akula2ssn

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#7 11 years ago

The Klingon ships in ST:TMP are not D7s. Those are K'Tinga class battlecruisers which are a seperate class from the D7. There are a lot of external external differences and by virtue of that, there are also significant internal differences between the two particularly in the aft quarter of the ship.

I believe that the designation of those battlecruisers as the K'Tinga class is first shown in the novelization of TMP by Gene Roddenberry himself.




akula2ssn

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#8 11 years ago

I believe that the designation of those battlecruisers as the K'Tinga class is first shown in the novelization of TMP by Gene Roddenberry himself.




Flash525

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#9 11 years ago

Lets take a trip back in time first, shall we? Firstly, did the BoP's in Enterprise have cloaking devices? I don't remember (I didn't may "that much" attention to the series) though I have a feeling they did. Now, bearing in mind that the Klingons' didn't "actually" receive cloaking devices until their "brief" alliance with the Romulans. The Romulans gave them cloaking devices, and the Klingons gave them Ships. Bearing in mind that the Klingons gave the Romulans ships, this would explain why the Romulans had Klingon ships with a Klingon insignia on them. However, we still have the problem of how Ent-era Klingon ships had cloaking devices (and if they did) - As already said, I've a gut feeling that they did have them. As for D7 (Klingon D7) ships having cloaking devices, it is probably that they did have them, at least after their alliance with the Romulans. But maybe not before? Chances are all the K't'inga Class ships had them. The only thing that is going to complicate matters here, is if the Ent-era Klingon ships had cloaking devices, when as we all well and truly know, the Klingons didn't get them until their alliance with the Romulans.




DarkTau

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#10 11 years ago
The Official Guide to Star TrekThe K't'inga-class battle cruisers were designed as uprated versions of the older D7 cruisers from The Original Series.

If you look at them, the only major difference between the two models is that the K'Tinga's are more detailed due to a larger budget. They share the same shape, which hints that the K'Tinga is essentially an uprated and upgraded D7. Especially considering that I have a model of each hanging in front of me.

EDIT: Wait, are you saying that a Klingon doesn't know his Empire's own ships?