Treaty of Algeron -1 reply

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Flash525

The Carbon Comrade

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14th July 2004

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#1 10 years ago

Well, we know of at least two races that has cloaking capability. It has also been theorised too, that the Breen also use cloaking devices. Assuming this to be the case, it would explain how they managed to successfully launch the assault on Earth which they did. Out of pure curiosity though, which member of the Federation Council was the tit that actually signed this treaty? The Treaty of Algeron prevents the Federation from developing, or using Cloaking Devices, yet, they are more than happy to allow the Klingon Empire, and Romulan Star Empire to fly around with them. Does this not give the Federation a distinct DISadvantage?




k_merse

Evolution

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30th September 2007

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#2 10 years ago

The Federation was really too idealist when they signet that treaty. But I think that it was a good decision to sign it because after that the Romulans were isolated for more than 50 years. This saved the Federation from the conquer of the Star Empire I think. And the Federation couldn't use very well the cloaking technology because if you have a technology, you know, how to defense against it. The Romulans and the Klingons had the technology...




Psychokenesis

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#3 10 years ago

It's not a theory that the Breen cloak. It's a fact. Apparently in on investigation the Breen were a possible attacker who also had cloak.

TIT? Really? I'll take this other road over here called the High Road and side with Jean Luc Picard. Any Treaty that is honored and preserves the peace of the Federation is nothing more than a good treaty.

Some people don't understand the breadth of the casualites that occured through the Romulan War. The alliance of the three worlds...Alpha Centauri, Vulcan and Terra and later the Andorians was a powerful force of discouraging Romulan invasion after they were forced back into their borders.

The Destruction of Starbase One and scores of ships over the next three years... For a fledgling Earth this was desasterous

Rightly so the New Federation's assets went into cloak detection which is why detecting cloaked ships is their expertise.




Flash525

The Carbon Comrade

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#4 10 years ago

I understand that this treaty would have been honored in the interests of the Federation, my question was, why would anyone (on behalf of the Federation) sign a treaty that allows other powers to use Cloaking devices, yet the Federation are not allowed. Regardless of the situation at the time, this choice of they made is just stupid. It gives the Romulans a distinct advantage, they could (for all we know) be flying around in Federation territory, and we'd never know about it.




emonkies

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#5 10 years ago

I would guess the Federation found fault with cloaking systems.

If you have a weapons system that works without question there is no reason to not want it.

If however you tested a system that you had captured from a Romulan ship and found that it wasnt worthwhile then you would not want it.

IIRC one problem was that it consumed a huge amount of energy, it was not foolproof, and if it quit working you were exposed.

As seen in TOS movies cloaked vessels could be countered. In St:III the Enterprise was able to detect that there was a cloaked ship but was not in good enough shape to put up a fight.

In ST:VI A cloaked Bird Of Prey was tracked and torpedoed to death. The technology existed to destroy a cloaked ship.

Im willing to bet though that the Feds have cloaked ships that are not on the official ship registries. Black Ops, Section 13, etc.




Psychokenesis

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#6 10 years ago
Tycoon;4165756I understand that this treaty would have been honored in the interests of the Federation, my question was, why would anyone (on behalf of the Federation) sign a treaty that allows other powers to use Cloaking devices, yet the Federation are not allowed. Regardless of the situation at the time, this choice of they made is just stupid. It gives the Romulans a distinct advantage, they could (for all we know) be flying around in Federation territory, and we'd never know about it.

there is a detection net protecting Federation territory. As we've seen constantly in Trek...the cloak is not infaliable and as Anlushac points out likely they had a way to see through this cloak....likely this is what one the war.

IF the Romulans saw the Federation having cloaking technology as a threat to their sovereignty the reason to cease the war would have been pointless. Remember this was a treaty of the 24 century not a treaty of the 23rd century or the 22nd in which the Romulan War occured. The Neutral Zone treaty was signed at the War's end.

the Treaty of Algernon was after the Tomed Incident. This was brief clash costing thousands of lives. It reaffirmed the Neutal Zone treaty and restricted cloaking tech. It also led to 50 years of peace. The Tommed Incident sounds like the makings of a good plot of a movie...




Flash525

The Carbon Comrade

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#7 10 years ago
Anlushac11;4165807I would guess the Federation found fault with cloaking systems.[/quote]That is what spys are for, so that they can capture them from the Klingons and Romulans. ;)
Anlushac11;4165807In ST:VI A cloaked Bird Of Prey was tracked and torpedoed to death. The technology existed to destroy a cloaked ship.[/quote]The Enterprise's Photon could only detect that cloaked ship due to "Torpedo Surgery" ;)
Saquist;4165814there is a detection net protecting Federation territory. As we've seen constantly in Trek...the cloak is not infaliable and as Anlushac points out likely they had a way to see through this cloak....likely this is what one the war.
This detection net didn't stop the Breen. [quote=Saquist;4165814]IF the Romulans saw the Federation having cloaking technology as a threat to their sovereignty the reason to cease the war would have been pointless. Remember this was a treaty of the 24 century not a treaty of the 23rd century or the 22nd in which the Romulan War occured. The Neutral Zone treaty was signed at the War's end. the Treaty of Algernon was after the Tomed Incident. This was brief clash costing thousands of lives. It reaffirmed the Neutal Zone treaty and restricted cloaking tech. It also led to 50 years of peace.
The War didn't end because the Federation said they wouldn't have cloaking devices though. [quote=Saquist;4165814]The Tommed Incident sounds like the makings of a good plot of a movie...

But instead, they are going back to TOS. :o




emonkies

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#8 10 years ago

I was referring to TOS episode "The Enterprise Incident" where Kirk and crew were able to "requsition" a cloaking device generator from Romulan D-6/7 class cruiser (I know D-7 is canon but did we ever determine whether D-6 was canon?)

The Federation no doubt studied it to death but never adopted it. That suggests they found faults with it.

As for the torpedo surgery I would not be surprised if such "surgery" came standard on later variants. Thats the kind of data that gets forwarded to R&D guys and gets tested and improved on and becomes a production mod.

We dont know how the Breen hit earth. All we know for sure is that they did. It is very possible Changeling infiltrators disabled the Tachyon grid allowing the Breen to slip past. Its also possible the Breen used ships disguised as freighters or even used Trojan Horse armed freighters.




Nusentinsaino

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#9 10 years ago

Don't forget... Sisko violated this treaty a couple of times with the Defiant...




emonkies

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#10 10 years ago
Nusentinsaino;4169784Don't forget... Sisko violated this treaty a couple of times with the Defiant...

By operating the Defiant with cloak on while in the Alpha Quadrant?