Why haven't the Vulcans fought back? -1 reply

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#1 8 years ago

As we know, unlike the first contact in "our" universe, first contact between Humans and the Vulcans in the mirror universe went a little bit differently, hehe. =p

To quote Memory Alpha:

Memory AlphaInstead of welcoming the Vulcans in a spirit of friendship and understanding, however, the mirror Zefram Cochrane killed the first Vulcan to set foot on Terran soil, as the Humans boarded and ransacked the Vulcan ship.[/QUOTE] Ship that landed on Earth was a T'Plana-Hath class. Memory Alpha doesn't seem to offer any technical data on that type of ship, but from the looks of it, it doesn't seem like a battleship to me, so I doubt the Terrans could've gain much weapon technology from it. Memory Alpha further says: [QUOTE=Memory Alpha]Instead of the Vulcans gradually releasing technology to Earth over time, the Terran Empire applied the stolen Vulcan technology to a policy of aggressive expansion. Because of this, the Empire was able to engage in technological research and development considerably earlier than it's traditional counterpart. Thus, the Starfleet of the mirror universe was somewhat more advanced than it's counterpart.

That means the Terrans have used stolen Vulcan technology to construct and/or improve their ships, with the ISS Enterprise NX-01 being the most notable one. However, assuming they've existed in the mirror universe and were equal to the ships from "our" universe, Vulcan ships of that era, like the D'Kyr type combat cruiser and Suurok class were much stronger than the Enterprise.

So, my question is: Why haven't the Vulcans fought back? And if they did, how is it possible they've lost and ended up conquered by the Terran Empire, despite the fact they had better ships? Unless the Terran Empire had them outnumbered and caught them completely by surprise (which I highly doubt), I don't see how the Vulcans managed to lose.

So, opinions, anyone?




Flash525

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#2 8 years ago

To be completely honest with you, I think this is one of them situations that you look at too much. There are obvious flaws between the two Universes, though it would have required too much from the writing department to make everything appear... consistent.

My only theory, is that the Vulcan's simply weren't ever a hostile species, so if the Terrans captured that Vulcan ship, and took it back to Vulcan (maybe to acquire other tech) the Vulcan's wouldn't have resisted.

This doesn't explain the Tellarites, Andorian or Orion mind you. I don't have any theory behind any of them, especially when 9as you say) the NX Class is inferior to the D'Kyr and Kumari type.




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#3 8 years ago
Aerilon;5371461To be completely honest with you, I think this is one of them situations that you look at too much.[/QUOTE] Actually, I scan the situation. ;)
Aerilon;5371461There are obvious flaws between the two Universes, though it would have required too much from the writing department to make everything appear... consistent.[/QUOTE] Lazy scriptwriters. =p [QUOTE=Aerilon;5371461]My only theory, is that the Vulcan's simply weren't ever a hostile species, so if the Terrans captured that Vulcan ship, and took it back to Vulcan (maybe to acquire other tech) the Vulcan's wouldn't have resisted.
Wouldn't that be illogical? Vulcans might've been peaceful, but they weren't stupid. Vulcans in "our" universe were also peaceful and enlightened species, but that didn't stop them from fighting back when attacked. They almost went to war with the Andorians. I don't see why the Vulcans from the mirror universe would be much different. They certainly adapted well to serve the Empire. To quote Spock: "Terror must be maintained or the Empire is doomed. It is the logic of history." Doesn't sound very peaceful to me. [QUOTE=Aerilon;5371461]This doesn't explain the Tellarites, Andorian or Orion mind you. I don't have any theory behind any of them, especially when (as you say) the NX Class is inferior to the D'Kyr and Kumari type.

I have a theory for the Orions. All the slave girls volunteerly gave themselves to Kirk. ;)




Nusentinsaino

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#4 8 years ago

The Vulcans have been observing Earth for a long period of time and did not want to interfere until Zefram completed the warp technology... my question is, are the Vulcans stupid enough to contact a very confused and violent race?

Also, I thought the Vulcans approached logic and are pacifistic...




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#5 8 years ago

Nusentinsaino;5382564The Vulcans have been observing Earth for a long period of time and did not want to interfere until Zefram completed the warp technology... my question is, are the Vulcans stupid enough to contact a very confused and violent race?

Also, I thought the Vulcans approached logic and are pacifistic...

I'm not sure but I think the Vulcans would have assumed that the situation they were landing into was safe enough to attempt a First Contact, and probably had a sufficent getaway plan if it had "kicked off".

Zefram Cochrane and his settlement are, after all, pretty peaceful from what we've seen of them.


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Nusentinsaino

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#6 8 years ago
FileTrekker;5382569 Zefram Cochrane and his settlement are, after all, pretty peaceful from what we've seen of them.

I meant, in the alternative universe... the humans are violent and xenophobic.

(It was reasonable for the Vulcans to contact the humans after they tested the first warp drive, in the original timeline)




Stark98

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#7 8 years ago

About terran empire overwhelming other races.. I think it is, because terrans just killed what they could.. Genocide? pfff, just push fire and that's it! In the beginning, i think the humans(zefram) took all the schematics out of the ship, containing weaponry, propulsion etc. They massively started building and prolly took over shipyards of other races to build and threatened by blowing up their moons to join or so? But, in the ent episode, wasn't the terran fleet destroyed at the end? And the enterprise just rescued by the defiant?




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#8 8 years ago
Nusentinsaino;5382564The Vulcans have been observing Earth for a long period of time and did not want to interfere until Zefram completed the warp technology... my question is, are the Vulcans stupid enough to contact a very confused and violent race?[/QUOTE] Good point. :agreed Vulcans considered humanity to be too violent, primitive and as such unprepared to join the interstellar community. That's why they showed little or no interest in Earth until Zephram Cochrane made his first warp flight at which point they concluded the humanity has matured enough to make contact with an extraterrestrial species, which is a bit odd since some other species Vulcans made prior contact with, like the Arkonians, has proven to be more violent than Humans, despite the fact they developed warp technology. I guess Vulcans in the mirror universe either sucked at learning from their mistakes or the humanity appeared to have matured and became peaceful when observed from orbit. :clueless:
Nusentinsaino;5382564Also, I thought the Vulcans approached logic and are pacifistic...[/QUOTE] My point exactly. Where's the logic in not fighting back and letting yourself be conquered by an inferior enemy? And by joining the Empire they've abandoned their pacifistic philosophy. I guess that can be credited to the fact that Vulcans were a violent race in the history and would destroy themselves if it weren't for Surak who taught them to embrace logic. To quote Spock again: "Terror must be maintained or the Empire is doomed. It is the logic of history." Perhaps the Vulcans in the mirror universe interpreted Surak's teachings in a different way than Vulcans in "our" universe. [QUOTE=Ari Gold;5382712]About terran empire overwhelming other races.. I think it is, because terrans just killed what they could.. Genocide? pfff, just push fire and that's it! In the beginning, i think the humans(zefram) took all the schematics out of the ship, containing weaponry, propulsion etc. They massively started building and prolly took over shipyards of other races to build and threatened by blowing up their moons to join or so?
Massively started building? With what? Earth just came out of a war. I can't even figure out how Zephram Cochrane managed to construct the Phoenix and make it warp capable. Where did he get necessary components? I mean, he practically lived at the junk yard. Sure, he used the nuclear missile, but what about the rest of the ship? [QUOTE=Ari Gold;5382712]But, in the ent episode, wasn't the terran fleet destroyed at the end? And the enterprise just rescued by the defiant?

As I recall, Enterprise was destroyed by the Tholians. In a Mirror, Darkly (episode) - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki




Stark98

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#9 8 years ago

Crap i meant the iss avenger....

About the junk yard stuff.. I agree, but it was in america if not mistaken. Who knows terran earth united with europe and other countries(more metal or so) and they took the vulcan ship to travel to other places to gain more duranium, tritanium etc.. Dunno..




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#10 8 years ago
Ari Gold;5383198Crap i meant the iss avenger....[/QUOTE] ISS Avenger was destroyed by the Defiant.
Ari Gold;5383198About the junk yard stuff.. I agree, but it was in america if not mistaken.
Are you saying American junk is better than European junk? :lulz: [QUOTE=Ari Gold;5383198]Who knows terran earth united with europe and other countries(more metal or so) and they took the vulcan ship to travel to other places to gain more duranium, tritanium etc.. Dunno..

And no one found odd that some violent race who call themselves Humans are using a Vulcan ship and tried to inform Vulcans about it? Vulcans didn't notice the disappearance of their ship and didn't send other ships to look for it?