Why haven't the Vulcans fought back? -1 reply

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Harcourt Fenton Mudd

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#21 8 years ago
Nusentinsaino;5382564 Also, I thought the Vulcans approached logic and are pacifistic...

They HAD to. Before logic, they were violent to the point of making Humanity look positivity peaceful, and had even came close to reducing their planetary population below the viability point (the point at which avoiding inbreeding, and the resulting health issues, is impossible) thru war on several occasions.

That said, this is one of those cases were you have to remember that Enterprise is even worse trek than JJ's attempt at a star wars film.

Which is a shame as thru a mirror darkly showed that TOS era trek with modern graphics would look pretty awsome.

As for how they did it, I Imagine that the Vulcans took some time to respond since by that point they were quite peaceful (albiet with arms incase there was a logical defenseve need for them). In that time, the humans no doubt took their EXISTING ships (this is the key to any war, you build what you have, not spend time researching new stuff) and retrofitted them with new guns/sheilds, as well as coming up with new production models of what they allready had that included the new tech.

This would allow them to take whatever existing space forces they allready had and turn them into a legitimate threat to vulcan ships.

Then add in mass production, and they get a huge swarm. From there, no doubt they would quickly swarm over the solar system, establish mining outposts, colonies, etc etc, and mass produce impulse craft with sheilds and weapons that were a mix of vulcan/human tech, and warm capable carriers to carry them.

Then they put their stolen vulcan ship in a box marked 'return to sender' and pay Vulcan a visit, and the Vulcans swat their ships like flies... and still loose due to sheer numbers.

As for the Romulans....... in the Earth/Romulan war the Romulans used mostly impulse craft based off of warp capable carriers (in Balance of Terror (TOS) the ship is specificly stated to only be impulse capable, giving credence to that line of thought.).

Odds are that in either 'verse the humans used fighters/carriers in that war to a good extent, with the bulk of the fighting being done with mass produced carrier based fighters, and a more limited number of early starships designed for a 1on1 combat role and tactical strikes (with the starships being more limited as they were still being advanced and refined during that period).

As for the cloaks in Enterprise........ in Balance of Terror cloaks were a suprise, so any cloak (ESPECILY on romulan ships) should be discounted in Enterprise.

Actualy just discount the whole of Enterprise, it'll save time and trouble.




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#22 8 years ago

Harcourt Fenton Mudd;5406718In that time, the humans no doubt took their EXISTING ships (this is the key to any war, you build what you have, not spend time researching new stuff) and retrofitted them with new guns/sheilds, as well as coming up with new production models of what they allready had that included the new tech.

This would allow them to take whatever existing space forces they allready had and turn them into a legitimate threat to vulcan ships.[/QUOTE] What ships? 21st century ships? NASA space shuttles? Leftovers from World War III? All junk and therefore useless in an armed conflict with a technologically superior alien race. Remember, Vulcans had quite powerful ships at their disposal, like a D'Kyr type combat cruiser and a Suurok class. At least I'm assuming they had those ships in the mirror universe as well. [QUOTE=Harcourt Fenton Mudd;5406718]Actualy just discount the whole of Enterprise, it'll save time and trouble.

Remember, we're talking about the mirror universe here, not "our" universe. There are many gaps to fill about the mirror universe.




Harcourt Fenton Mudd

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#23 8 years ago

Tricorder;5406757What ships? 21st century ships? NASA space shuttles? Leftovers from World War III? All junk and therefore useless in an armed conflict with a technologically superior alien race. Remember, Vulcans had quite powerful ships at their disposal, like a D'Kyr type combat cruiser and a Suurok class. At least I'm assuming they had those ships in the mirror universe as well.

Remember, we're talking about the mirror universe here, not "our" universe. There are many gaps to fill about the mirror universe.

Indeed.

In our universe even, there were no doubt SOME space vessels at that point, as well as early impulse englines.

Look at the Botany Bay, for an example (TOS: Space Seed).

Now, yes those ships WOULD Be junk compared to Vulcan ships.

But if they were retrofitted with tech reverse engenered from the Vulcan ship, that would mean that if mass produced, they become a swarm of junk.

Add in a few warp capable carriers of large size, plus troop transports, and Vulcan itself is at risk.




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#24 8 years ago
Harcourt Fenton Mudd;5406843Look at the Botany Bay, for an example (TOS: Space Seed).

Don't you know? Botany Bay is a myth. ;)




Harcourt Fenton Mudd

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#25 8 years ago
Tricorder;5406844Don't you know? Botany Bay is a myth. ;)

KAHNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!

ssbotanybayremastered.jpg




Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#26 8 years ago

In Carbon Creek, (an Enterprise episode,) a Vulcan survey ship crash-lands on earth in 1957. They don't know if a distress call has been sent and one of the Vulcans, Mestral, uses as a basis to refuse orders the idea that no-one may come to their rescue. It took three months for the Vulcans to turn up, which they only did because the distress call got picked up by a freighter. Which suggests that the Vulcans don't exactly keep tight tabs on their ships.

They're even talking about their futures on the planet and whether humans will destroy themselves and so on. It's not like, 'Don't worry, someone will be back to check why we didn't go to the next stop on that exacting mission plan we filled with the High Command.'

It's entirely possible that the Terrans took a few years to back-engineer the technology, another decade or so to build up their manufacturing capabilities and churn out a few warships, then went and kicked the shit out of the knife-ears. =p




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#27 8 years ago

We don't know if the story about Carbon Creek is true or not. T'Pol didn't say if it really happened or she made it up to entertain Archer and Trip. Watch the episode again. So, I wouldn't use it as a reference on how much attention Vulcans payed to their ships.




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#28 8 years ago

She gets out the handbag at the end when she's back in her quarters, and neither Archer nor his officer seemed to find the situation implausible




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#29 8 years ago
Nemmerle;5406872She gets out the handbag at the end when she's back in her quarters[/QUOTE] So? Handbag doesn't have to mean anything. It could've been just a trick to fool the audience into thinking the story is true and her great-grandmother (the original owner of the purse) may have never been on Earth. [QUOTE=Nemmerle;5406872]and neither Archer nor his officer seemed to find the situation implausible

As I recall, they were left with an unanswered question if the story is true or not. Without the official confirmation from T'Pol or some other Vulcan familiar with the whole thing, we simply don't know.




Harcourt Fenton Mudd

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#30 8 years ago

Its Enterprise, that means its not trek.

That said, totaly plausable, and proably at least in part based off of one of the TOS novels were that happend (execpt it wasnt based on IRL earth, but the trek verse earth, whose history diverged from our own something that none of the series seem to bother to take note of)