Hardpoint & Breaknode Questions. -1 reply

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#1 10 years ago

Is there anyone still around here that knows how to fully hardpoint a ship?

Where do the "m_meshgroup" hardpoints attached on the tree?

Also was looking for more direct detail on Breaknode creation if not even an example mesh with breaknodes and hardpoints setup and ready to go.

I was thinking an example mesh a very simple one made of a few geometric shapes with the main hardpoint structures as well as one of the shapes being a breaknode group.

Also looking at having a logo mesh group on it as well, both on one of the "main" objects and one part on the "breaknode" object.

Also looking to have a few lights on it, both on the main object and one the breaknode object.

As I know that the logomesh on the breaknode requires something a little different (different attachment point on the hardpoint tree?). The same for the lights. If the lights aren't on the proper part of the hardpoint tree when the Mesh part fails away the lights stay floating without the mesh. Also the same for a Damage Mesh, if it's not right it will stay behind when the breaknode falls away.

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Basically as you might have gathered I'm looking at learning to port ships. And maybe in the future as I get a good understanding of that and comfortable with Milkshape etc I might start to make my own stuff... but that will certainly be awhile.

So I'm looking for a little assistance in these areas. I have a couple people I can go directly to to ask as well. Just I have posted some of this in another forum and they haven't seen it yet, so looking for a quicker answer if I happen to get one. Next step will be sending a few direct emails out to people. I figure if I can atleast get some answers I'll have less questions to ask via email.

I'm also thinking once I do know how to do this stuff I might make that example mesh myself and submit it for download as a guideline for people to look at. I figure a very simple mesh mainly so people see what they need and don't get alot of extra fancy stuff. Maybe just make a simple thing that looks like some a little more like a Ship rather than a sphere and a few cylinders but we will see.




F/\}{I´3$

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#2 10 years ago

Muldrf;5301800Is there anyone still around here that knows how to fully hardpoint a ship?[/QUOTE]

Of course, there is!

Muldrf;5301800 Where do the "m_meshgroup" hardpoints attached on the tree?[/QUOTE] here is the mesh tree: h_scene root | h_root | h_geometry | h_lod0 | m_meshgroup

Muldrf;5301800 Also was looking for more direct detail on Breaknode creation if not even an example mesh with breaknodes and hardpoints setup and ready to go.

I was thinking an example mesh a very simple one made of a few geometric shapes with the main hardpoint structures as well as one of the shapes being a breaknode group.

Breaknodes: You need an additonal harpoint that will break. this hardpoint is named in the ships odf file. Add all mesh parts to that node that should break. Dont add mesh nodes that shouldnt break to this hardpoint!

h_scene root | h_root | h_geometry | h_lod0 | h_lengine (check the name in your odf or edit that one!) | m_breakmeshgroup

[COLOR="Red"]NOTE: Do never add only one joint to another joint. Then it could happen that you do rotate joints that you dont want to rotate.[/COLOR] instead add a second joint (jointXX) and dont change its name. The exporter will ignore it then.

[QUOTE=Muldrf;5301800] Also looking at having a logo mesh group on it as well, both on one of the "main" objects and one part on the "breaknode" object.

Also looking to have a few lights on it, both on the main object and one the breaknode object.

Uhh thats complicate, but i did that with my Voyager. i think you have to call the logo mesh joints that should break like this: m_r_logo and m_l_logo (you shouldnt remove the "logo" from the name, i belive that wont work) and add them to the breaknode (h_lengine).

And for the lights: just dont add them to the h_lights node, but to the breaknode (h_lengine).

[QUOTE=Muldrf;5301800] As I know that the logomesh on the breaknode requires something a little different (different attachment point on the hardpoint tree?). The same for the lights. If the lights aren't on the proper part of the hardpoint tree when the Mesh part fails away the lights stay floating without the mesh. Also the same for a Damage Mesh, if it's not right it will stay behind when the breaknode falls away.

Make sure that your breaknode is centered where h_scene_root is. Otherwise your light wont be at the location you wish.

Also add the damage mesh part of the broken object to the breaknode too! call the damage mesh like the mesh that breaks, but with the "in_" prefix: eg if "m_breakmesh" breaks call the damage mesh node ""m_in_breakmesh"




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#3 10 years ago

Thanks for the info. And good to see you around. That looks like it will be very helpful. Certainly clears alot of questions.




Kophjaeger

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#4 10 years ago

It is freakishly serendipitous that I was just scratching my head on the same question. So are the chunks themselves separate models of a broken nacelle or something to that effect, or are they part of the main model? Do you know how to hard point one of them? Are the chunks and breaknodes even related? Allong with Muldrf's question, weapons hardpoints would also be children of the h_l_engine?




F/\}{I´3$

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#5 10 years ago

Muldrf;5302391And good to see you around. [/QUOTE] Hehe yeah, dont think that you can get rid of me that fast :P

Kophjaeger;5302415It is freakishly serendipitous that I was just scratching my head on the same question. So are the chunks themselves separate models of a broken nacelle or something to that effect, or are they part of the main model? Do you know how to hard point one of them? Are the chunks and breaknodes even related?

Well no breaknodes and chunks arent directly related. I dont know how to create chunk files. As far as i know, its not possible for us modders to create them. But maybe im not up to date here.

[QUOTE=Muldrf;5302391] Allong with Muldrf's question, weapons hardpoints would also be children of the h_l_engine?

yeah, i believe that should work. Test it, then you know it xD




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#6 10 years ago

I take it then that all of these should be at the same x,y,z to ensure anything attached to them shows up where you expect it to.

h_scene root,h_root,h_geometry,h_lod0,h_lengine,m_breakmeshgroup

otherwise your lengine and breakmeshgroup would be ofset?

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I'd say any hardpoint, even if you put Warp or Engine Destruction Hardpoints for example in the nacelle you would want them attached there so they go away.

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New Chunk Geometry can not at this time be created by modders.. Not likely to be able to in the future either.. Moonraker found the chunks are a different format that would have taken quite a bit of time to decode apparently and he decided for the amount of time they are on screen that using duplicates of the stock ones would suffice in general.

You can "retexture" the existing stock chunks and duplicate them. You can duplicate them just by copying them to the new filename you need. You can retexture them by hex edit of the base chunk file, or you can do it the easy way and use my LMTools, which have an interface for it.




F/\}{I´3$

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#7 10 years ago

Muldrf;5302594I take it then that all of these should be at the same x,y,z to ensure anything attached to them shows up where you expect it to.

h_scene root,h_root,h_geometry,h_lod0,h_lengine,m_breakmeshgroup

otherwise your lengine and breakmeshgroup would be ofset?

Yeah i would place every joint but the harpoints (hpXX) in the center position. MS3D has this useful option in the move menu. Select there "absolute" and use the coordinates 0,0,0. Do this with every joint and begin with the first joint in your joint tree (h_scene root -> h_root -> h_geometry -> ...).




Kophjaeger

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#8 10 years ago

Thanks guys, that clears up alot. I have ripped a few models from the game and I am not sure how their groups break. If we were to look at the Galaxy class, and lets sat the left engine was to break off, then that group or groups would be the ones that do, and if so that would make the break fairly clean correct? If I wanted to make the break a bit more jagged then I would just have to make the groups attached to the break a bit more jagged, so long as they still meet up seamlessly, is that correct?

A shame about making chunks since I dont know what would look the most like a battlestar, but I can play with that. How does the naming of these chunks work? The Akira for example has a _root and then _root(0-5), but only a couple for the engines (0-2). Are these just variations of the chunk? Would I need at least a _root and a _root0 + _L_Engine and L_Engine0?




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#9 10 years ago

Yes jagged edges get created by making that part of the mesh jagged. F/\}{I´3$ does that with his ships. Most other breaknodes are "clean cuts" as you put it. Clean cuts are easier but I don't think getting things lined up with the jagged ones are that much, unless it creates texturing problems for you. What Moonraker does is make the underlying damage mesh (the part of it that doesn't fall away) have a rough appearance, like conduits that tore away. I have some shots of it and how he has it on his Excelsiors, looks pretty cool.

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I managed to get breaknodes working today! Also I have the damage mesh below it linked to fall away. It's just a clean break right now, but I'm figuring on doing something like Moonraker did on his nacelle breaknodes.




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#10 10 years ago

Kophjaeger;5304004Thanks guys, that clears up alot. I have ripped

A shame about making chunks since I dont know what would look the most like a battlestar, but I can play with that. How does the naming of these chunks work? The Akira for example has a _root and then _root(0-5), but only a couple for the engines (0-2). Are these just variations of the chunk? Would I need at least a _root and a _root0 + _L_Engine and L_Engine0?

The regular Akira chunks are the "main model" the "engine" chunks are for the "engine" breaknode. The "engine" ones are just the nacelles. The nacelle chunks get named after the "breaknode" joint name that's used in the model and the odf file.

Another thing to keep in mind with chunks is that they do not rescale.. So if you scale a ship up or down the chunks will still be the same scale as the stock ship they went to when it was at it stock scale.

Finding chunks to fit ships is a pain with having to reuse stock chunks.

You can atleast assign different textures to the chunks surfaces. I've said it before, but never tested it, you might be able to apply textures to what was originally the "inside" of the exploding chunk. And the outside for that matter.