Joelteon7 Actually, Mad Doc DO whole heartedly support modding...it's Bethesda who won't allow them to release anything. Everyone thinks the developers screwed this up, but from past gaming of Mad Doc, I disagree that it is their issue, it's Bethesda's fault and I'm happy to believe so. Anyhow, that's for a different thread.
I disagree, it is actually MadDoc that are refusing to support modding, for what reason I do not know. Bethesda have always supported modding with all of their games, they have even gone so far as to release programs to support it. (see Elder Scrolls Series' Construction Kits)
I also believe it is MadDoc that did a poor job, Bethesda are the publishers and Star Trek Licence holders. It is MadDoc that did the scripting, texturing and everything else to do with Legacy. IMO they got sloppy because they had Rick Knox's ship models, and so did a half assed job of it all.
I know what its like; if someone has done half the work for you, you become sloppy and think you have forever to finish the job. A mistake MadDoc made which resulted in a unfinished product going to the shelves. You may say well why release it then, the answer is simple. Bethesda will have payed thousands of Dollars to publish the game before it was finished, so why hold back a game that will hurt the developers reputation and not Bethesda's.
Additionally MadDoc is a small time developer, they do not have much experience in the industry. While I liked both Armada games, it is fair to say that the Executives at Bethesda will have decided that MadDoc is a small time developer and their reputation is not worth the expenses that will have been payed prior to release.
Note:This is not an invitation for a flame fest. It is my thoughts on the matter.
The cake is a lie.There is no cake.
13th November 2004
[Moderator]Pointless comments in this thread will be deleted. This is for serious discussion.[/Moderator] It's an odd one by all means. MD have done games in the past, notably RTS', which I think could've been a problem in the game. Don't get me wrong, it ain't perfect, but that is a whole other can-o-worms. Considering some of the people who made the game worked amongst the community, I'd put that at a plus more than a "well, half-assed job". I think they KNOW/KNEW there would be a big modding community and can't officially do anything, but it's MD who want to try and subtly help. I quote the QA article on LegacyFiles, here. You'll note that when asked about whether or not MD (note, the interview was with MD and NOT Bethesda) would support modding, they said not officially. Well, that's two answers isn't it. Answer 1) We can't show we do. Answer 2) Well, unofficially, we'll do our best. Considering some of the devs have articles on Legacy-Mods, I don't see why MD would suddenly turn their back on Legacy. Also bare in mind that whilst none of their games have truly been fantastic, they've not been of such low quality as you could quite possible rate Legacy (PC version anyhow, apparently the 360 one ain't so bad). I believe if MD could, they'd help with the modding, I REALLY do. I think they'd release a few tools and such that would provide help. However, we've got to ask what is going on in the Bethesda camp. There are murmurings of "something" going on over there. A patch, expansion, whatever, *something* is going on. The question is, who's developing it: B or MD? If it's MD, it'll be quality, if it's B, then we could be open to more problems. Maybe, on another point...there's just a conflict of interest between the two groups? It's a strange one though. Both are obviously keen on modding, but something has gone wrong. My money is still on supporting MD though. I don't believe that Legacy is ALL their fault.
Unfortunately Bethesda have the better reputation than MadDoc in the first place and have worked on a wider variety of games, giving them the benefit of the doubt.
As for MadDoc staffers having articles on Legacy mods, that's not really a textbook definition of mod support. Mod tools on the other hand would be.
Mad Doc On the PC, players will be able to mod the game. While we don’t have any plans to officially support PC Mods, we don’t think people will have too much difficulty getting the results they want. [/quote]
Which again brings up an interesting point. There are multiple ways of reading between the lines from this; your answers being one and that the game engine was already mod-able and so that couldn't be prevented is another.Joelton7a conflict of interest between the two groups
I think we can say that the two are not getting along for sure. First of all there is the fact that Legacy was originally planned by MadDoc to be Armada 3: Admirals. Which of course is not possible because the Armada series rights belong to Activision. Meaning that it is not possible for further titles to be released in that series (or any other previous Star Trek Game Series).
Which in turn is further proof that MadDoc are still in their infancy, had they known the rules in the first place the idea for Armada 3 would have never crossed the board.
Although much of the early issues and development process was kept from the community we can probably say that MadDoc not being able to pursue Armada 3 will have caused tension between the two companies.
[quote=Joelteon7]There are murmurings of "something" going on over there. A patch, expansion, whatever, *something* is going on.
This could be interesting :nodding:.
Maybe theres another slight conflict there, the game wanting to be armada 3, but winning it was stlegacy Looking around MD dont really want to help people mod, but then again there isnt anyone stopping them, but the fact is, its moddable, quite easily as armada2 etc runs on the same sort of coding, i mean look where armada has come in a few years, really good, And why would bethesda want to hold back, like hocking said, they have released construction kits before, quite puzzled really
The cake is a lie.There is no cake.
13th November 2004
Well, if you look on LegacyMods, ChessMess, one of the developers, sent an open letter to Bethesda (open in that everyone could have a look at it) asking about working on it independantly. Considering he is there frequently on the forums, helping people mod the game, I think it's a case of unofficially supporting it. If they didn't support it at all, he wouldn't be allowed to be on there.
Not at all, that's a case of "in spare time," acting amongst the community doesn't mean that the entire company unofficially supports modding. It could be say that the CEO stopping them from supporting it.
You have Elder Scrolls? No wonder why you have that point of view.
Lazy asses aren't they. I suppose it was Sierra who actually developed Empire Earth II and deserve all of the credit.
I don't have such a one sided view just because of what a company has done in the past.
Read the agreement you accepted before installing Legacy. It says you can't mod the game. I expect Mad Doc had plans because they were going to release the Armada II scripting tools but they couldn't have got the support from Bethesda to do so.
Mad Doc made some mistakes and both companies deserve credit/praise for the game.