Force Powers? -1 reply

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The One and Only VIP Member

I R Scary Eyeball

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#11 11 years ago

For one thing they fit nicely inside a B-box, as do the thermal detonators (although they still made them roll in an odd way)




Botdra Lar'les

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#12 11 years ago

So why couldn't we apply it to another BIGGER object then? I understand it would be hard if the object was a square/cube but if it was the same shape as a saber or thermal detonator it might work. No?




Wytchking

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#13 11 years ago

But don't you think it would be a bit strange throwing around just cylinders and spheres? Most objects aren't the same shape as a thermal detenator or a lightsaber.




Mikouen VIP Member

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#14 11 years ago
Srenn OrjThere is a physics system in JA, it's just not used as much as it should be. If you drop your lightsaber, it will bounce and roll down steps or ramps. I wonder why Ravensoft put that in, but didn't use physics for other, more important things.

Actually, that's not physics as much as it is a pre-determined behavioural pattern.

If it were a physics system, then the lightsaber would never behave the same way twice, it would be completely determined by the environment, and would behave realistically in comparison to the environment.

JA's "lightsaber physics" is basically a scripted component saying "if you touch a brush, move up by xxx units, then do the same again but move up by xx units, then again by x units, then remain still on top of the brush - oh, rotate a little too". That's obvious because it's behaviour is, for the most part, exactly the same, and isn't realistic at all.

Compare a dropped lightsaber in JA to a thrown sword or arrow in Oblivion, and you'll see what I mean.

Physics isn't actually something you can code into an engine, you need a completely seperate dedicated software engine which works in tandem with the game's render. Basically, my point is that if JA had a physics engine built in, it would not be possible to make it target just lightsabers - the engine would give environment-based reactions and true ragdoll deformations for all objects.

Er... sorry to sound like a nay-sayer. But... yeah. JA has no physics engine integrated. Just wanted to get that out there before everyone started running around asking how to make their models and stuff work with "JA's physics engine".... No point getting people's hopes up.... Right? :uhm:

Bottom line is, you want "physics", you've gotta emulate them with ICARUS, which means the only viable places to use it are the occasional key event or cutscene.

If we had the full source code, we could upgrade and implement an open-source physics package. But... we don't. Sucks, huh?


I don't know how, and I don't know why, but this is totally Sheep's fault.



Srenn Orj

Slightly sane

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#15 11 years ago
Kouen;4228640Actually, that's not physics as much as it is a pre-determined behavioural pattern. If it were a physics system, then the lightsaber would never behave the same way twice, it would be completely determined by the environment, and would behave realistically in comparison to the environment. JA's "lightsaber physics" is basically a scripted component saying "if you touch a brush, move up by xxx units, then do the same again but move up by xx units, then again by x units, then remain still on top of the brush - oh, rotate a little too". That's obvious because it's behaviour is, for the most part, exactly the same, and isn't realistic at all.

Interesting. How do the lightsabers bounce down slopes, then? Also, in Ninja Mod, you can fling your weapon. It travels in an arc, and if it hits a brush at clost to a 90 degree angle, it will stick into it. If it hits at a sharper angle, it will bounce and skitter across the floor. Does this use a similar script to fake the physics?




Botdra Lar'les

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#16 11 years ago

:confused:Alright, so then can we integrate that engine into other objects? Or is it hard-coded? Can we modify it?




Mikouen VIP Member

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#17 11 years ago

Srenn OrjInteresting. How do the lightsabers bounce down slopes, then?[/quote]I'd assume the script has the object "bounce" at an arbitrary angle, and the rest is just simple gravity (or, as basic coded gravity goes, "object go down unless big rock in way").

I refuse to comment on Ninja Mod without taking a look at it first, but as an off-hand guess I'd estimate it's basic coding designed to emulate certain behavioural patterns.

All physics actions within this game are pretty much pre-scripted, though. The biggest tell-tale sign is bodies. If a body lies flat with part of itself stuck inside a wall, no physics engine; if it realisticaly slumps in the corner like an Irishman at 4pm on St Patricks Day, you got physics.

If you've ever noticed what a stormtrooper does when you grip-throw him and he dies upon hitting the floor... with a physics engine, he wouldn't do that ice-skating-fall-on-his-face routine, he'd realistically interact with the floor.

Without looking at the source code, I can't give any definitive answers, you understand. Just that from what one can see within the game itself.... if there's any physics in JA's code, it's the bare minimal.

[quote=Aika]Alright, so then can we integrate that engine into other objects? Or is it hard-coded? Can we modify it?

Integrating a physics engine into a rendering engine requires access to the full source code, and sadly, JA's SDK covers 0% of the GL renderer components.

While you couldn't integrate a physics engine into the game, it is possible that if physics coding exists, you may be able to tap into it.

That's assuming the game would read code from auxiliary DLLs, though, as opposed to it being instructed to look for specific code at a specific location. If that's the case, you're shafted - as I learned much to my dismay with Deus Ex (long before learning of the wonderous UnrealScript).

But again, without an SDK, we can't see where to start, and thus our only option is guesswork.

I blame Raven Software, meself, for not releasing a full SDK. iD Tech 3 is open source under the GPL, what was so revolutionary in the code done by Raven's dev team that stopped them from releasing a full SDK?


I don't know how, and I don't know why, but this is totally Sheep's fault.



yodaman123

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#18 11 years ago

If you want high physics, just play Crysis (if it runs okay on your PC) that game has realy cool physics.




Botdra Lar'les

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#19 11 years ago

Kouen: So to sum that all up... We're f*cked? :( Can we access the system already in the game? The pre-determined behavioural system?




Mikouen VIP Member

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#20 11 years ago
Aika Can we access the system already in the game? The pre-determined behavioural system?

I doubt it, because there's no system to access. It's just a line telling "lightsaber" objects to behave that way.

Anything else you want, you'd have to code from scratch, but since there's no physics engine you're extremely limited as to what you can actually do.

Imagine the difference between Sonic Adventure DX and Sonic The Hedgehog (2006), or the difference between Morrowind and Oblivion. Those examples are the difference between not having a physics engine and having a physics engine.


I don't know how, and I don't know why, but this is totally Sheep's fault.