Jedi Academy Unleashed - Legalities Discussion -1 reply

Please wait...

FireDragon100

The Internet ends at GF

50 XP

27th August 2008

0 Uploads

123 Posts

0 Threads

#1 10 years ago

This is what you've been waiting for!

Some of you already know that I'm building a TFU-Mod for Jedi Academy. The Mods' name will be

Jedi Academy Unleashed

(I hope there won't be any copyright-problems! o_O)

-------------------------

The plan:

- Jedi Academy Unleashed (JAU) will be a "Total Conversion" - It will be SinglePlayer only! - You'll be able to play the story of TFU on your computer! - There will be cutscenes with original sounds from TFU, BUT the cutscenes will be in Jedi Academy graphic (so they'll be a "REMAKE" of the original TFU-cutscenes, just with another engine) - You can move the camera while playing! - High quality models and maps (they'll be as good and detailed as possible) - Health bars - stronger force powers - backhand lightsaber - new animations - TFU-Music - gripable objects, robots and dead bodies

-------------------------

What I did until now:

- reskinned Unsungs' and Schrödingers' Starkiller-Model - build the hangar of the Tie-Facility - a friend of me reskinned the rancor - mixed the Telekinesis Mod with the Jacob's Stance

And some other small changes like backhand saber, camera movement, etc... you can see everything in the videos below...

--------------------------

It IS possible to build a TFU-TC!

But it's tooo hard to do it alone. So I'll start recruiting now.

I need:

- good mappers - good modelers

I don't need skinners, because I can do that myself. A friend of me will try to send me sound effects from the original TFU-game in the best quality as possible.

-------------------------

Permissions:

I will NOT release the Mod, if the people whose models and mods I used don't give me their permissions. I'm talkin of this stuff:

Telekinesis Mod Jacob Stance Starkiller Model (by Schrödiger and Unsung) (talked already to them) Stormtrooper (Haps) <-- Does anyone know how to contact him? - New Lightning effects - "sniper-backhand saber"

Mmh... I think I don't ripped of any other stuff. So I'll try to contact the people... -------------------------

Starkiller Model:

Currently I'm using the "Schröd+Unsung-Starkiller"... But I know, that there are 2 more amazing starkillers coming... There's one on the Void and there's also DLX's Starkiller. If I get ALL permissions, you'll be able to choose between the 3 models at the beginning of the game.

-------------------------

Maps (ATTENTION!!! SPOILERS!!!):

I'm currently building the first level of the game (Tie-Facility)...

About the real first level (ATTENTION! Spoiler ALERT!!!):

Spoiler: Show
I know, that the Vader-Level is the "real" first level of TFU, but I don't want to put it in my Mod... MAYBE as a bonus-map... But the game shall start with Starkiller's first mission... And I think the Kashyyk- Level won't look nice in Jedi Academy...

I will also build

Spoiler: Show
the Executor-Level

What you can do for me:

I need mappers for the following maps:

Spoiler: Show
Felucia, Raxus Prime, Death-Star

But: PLEASE rebuild the maps as good as possible! I made a lot of reference-pics with my camcorder when I played TFU on my X-Box360 to rebuild the Tie-Hangar as good as possible.

-------------------------

Other Models [SPOILERS!!]:

I need people who can build these models:

Spoiler: Show
TFU-Royal Guards (all colors) PROXY Rham Kota Battle-Damaged Vader EVO-Stormtroopers

I was working on a Juno Eclipse-Model in Milkshape 3D, but I can't make it usable for playing. I think there are also no more bones... But if someone want's to finish my work, I can send him the files!

------------------------

Videos:

I already uploaded some videos... At the beginning I did not plan to make a total conversion! I wanted to make a mod for myself.. But when I recognized, that it IS possible, I decided to make a BIG project out of it...

YouTube - Jedi Academy: The Force Unleashed Mod (Watch my new video!)

YouTube - Re: Jedi Academy: The Force Unleashed Mod

YouTube - WIP: Starkiller Reskin (Jedi Academy Unleashed)

YouTube - Jedi Academy Unleashed - Animations

YouTube - Jedi Academy Unleashed - First Map + Camera Movement

About the "Beta-Version": There will be no release until I got the permissions! So don't become angry please! --------------------------

Mod Forums:

The Mod does NOT have any website... but I think I'll set up a website in a few days...

:rolleyes:

So if you want to support this project, just tell me what you can do or show me pictures of WIP-Models/Maps in this thread :)




SiLink

(JAWA) Leader

50 XP

13th February 2005

0 Uploads

1,663 Posts

0 Threads

#2 10 years ago

This has the potential to be great and everything you made so far looks very very impressive however as people have pointed out with others requesting a KotOR TC in the past, is it really worth it? Because I can see this game being released on PC in a few months and I'd rather play that than a JKA TC. I don't want to shoot you down however this is my suggestion:

Perhaps have a completely new story, maybe in your story the apprentice survives meaning Vader lied at the end of TFU... maybe he could seek out revenge on the Emporer or maybe do something else like finding Eclipse who may of gotten captured or something... I don't know, I'm no good at stories XD

Me personally I'd like to see something new rather than the TFU on JA.




Iceman_Freeze

~:Witch Doctorate of Science:~

50 XP

6th October 2007

0 Uploads

328 Posts

0 Threads

#3 10 years ago

...peoples obsession with this game confuses me to no end -_- no, i have not played it but from what i can tell and have heard, i have no idea where this hype is coming from....it only got a 6.0 from gamespot (so far, these guys have never steered me wrong when its come to came reviews), and from what i can tell, it just looks like every other action adventure game out there, and from what ive also heard, it is incredibly short...it may just be me, but if you going to go and work on a game for about 3 or so years, u should at least make it enjoyable and at least last longer than 5 hour playthrough -_-..the only thing it really has running for it is that it is the first star wars on a next gen console(i believe) and it is one of the only lightsaber combat games to come out in the last few years...

dont get me wrong, if you need help skinning or any thing along those lines...im just getting annoyed with all this TFU this and TFU that... why not make some other stuff with the SW EU x.x




Guest

I didn't make it!

0 XP

 
#4 10 years ago

I'm with Iceman, mainly because I can't stand playing JKA for more than 1/2 hour a week (or even month), and only if all settings are cranked to high on a heavily modded game. The other reason is that I've heard TFU isn't really that great.

Now on the more positive side, go for it, and let all the loyal JKA veterans and lovers help!




FireDragon100

The Internet ends at GF

50 XP

27th August 2008

0 Uploads

123 Posts

0 Threads

#5 10 years ago

Iceman_Freeze;4608565

dont get me wrong, if you need help skinning or any thing along those lines...im just getting annoyed with all this TFU this and TFU that... why not make some other stuff with the SW EU x.x[/quote]

[quote=The Soleutator;4608599]I'm with Iceman, mainly because I can't stand playing JKA for more than 1/2 hour a week (or even month), and only if all settings are cranked to high on a heavily modded game. The other reason is that I've heard TFU isn't really that great.

Yes you're right... TFU isn't really THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT great... :rolleyes: It's toooo short... But I must also say that it's one of the best Star Wars games I've ever played.... The Mod could be longer than the original game (because of bonus-missions)... Building a Rouge Squadron or PodRacer-Mod for JKA, won't be easy :rolleyes: But TFU is perfect for a JKA-Mod :naughty: It's possible and it's not as hard as a Rouge-Squadron-Mod.. ;)

The other thing is: Creating a Republic Commando Mod won't make sense, because RC was released on the computer... :rolleyes: And people who don't want to waste money for TFU and a next-gen-console can play TFU for free with this mod :)




Mikouen VIP Member

What?

145,650 XP

4th September 2005

4 Uploads

11,732 Posts

2 Threads

#6 10 years ago

Can I just point out, that if you strip away TFU's gameplay, what you're left with simply is not worth bothering with?

It's like making a Devil May Cry TC for Morrowind, or a Dynasty Warriors game that doesn't involve mowing through entire armies with a musou/renbu combo, or a Splinter Cell or Resident Evil game that plays just like Quake III.

Some games cannot be taken out of their element and translated to a different style, because that style is all they have. If you want to play and enjoy TFU, then the only way to do it, is by playing TFU.

From an artistic point of view, what you're doing is desecration of an overall end product that many people slaved to create; from a business perspective, if people download this mod rather than play TFU, it's going to kill LucasArts' profits; and from a gameplay experience, you're tearing away an overall shallow and simplistic yet still relatively fun (for a while, at least, depending on your tastes in gaming) gaming experience.

There's a difference between a few derivative models here and there, and trying to translate the entire game into a format where it's just not going to work well.

Even if you do go ahead, you're not fuckin' with an abandonware product like DF/DF2JK, you're messing with a current release, a game that was released less than a fortnight ago.

I mean, no offense dude, but did you hit your head or something? Are you trying to get sued? I mean, no one out there in the world would be ballsy enough to start cutting in on products that haven't even hit five percent of their lifetime sales capacity, let alone LucasArts products.

You're either very brave, or very stupid, but take my word for it that this will end in tears one way or the other.

By all means ask Gir all about just how far these corporate entities will go to keep their stuff under wraps. He'll tell you that if you're looking for prize bastards, corporate lawyers are the nastiest amongst all the legal pitbulls in the world.

The SoleutatorLucas Arts never had made the best games around, in fact, I do know that Kotor1&2 were based off another engine, and JKO and JKA were based off the Q3 engine, and DF 1&2 are too old to count[/quote]Actually, TFU is the only game LucasArts have actually made since Dark Forces 2.

[quote=Erstok]TFU was over hyped.

Finally, someone who's not wanking over what's nothing more than a generic action game. Phew, thought the entire gamer population had lost their capacity for independent thought whenever Star Wars was involved....

(Note: I'm not saying that it's not a good action game, I've had my fair share of fun playing it. What I am saying, is that it's still a generic action-adventure/hack-and-slash game, and it doesn't contain anything that hasn't been done before, from a gameplay perspective.)


I don't know how, and I don't know why, but this is totally Sheep's fault.



FireDragon100

The Internet ends at GF

50 XP

27th August 2008

0 Uploads

123 Posts

0 Threads

#7 10 years ago

Armarok;4608882Seems very nice, I might be able to help with mapping if you need any, need to take a look to see what those maps you need look like again.[/quote]

Thank you! Tell me which levels you want to build.

The Soleutator;4608905

That being said, from what I've seen, apart from a good physics engine, JKA should be fairly capable of copying TFU. ....but I don't want to see this thread turn into a fight about it.[/quote] That's exactly my opinion...

[quote=Mikouen;4608959]Can I just point out, that if you strip away TFU's gameplay, what you're left with simply is not worth bothering with? .... Some games cannot be taken out of their element and translated to a different style, because that style is all they have. If you want to play and enjoy TFU, then the only way to do it, is by playing TFU.

From an artistic point of view, what you're doing is desecration of an overall end product that many people slaved to create; from a business perspective, if people download this mod rather than play TFU, it's going to kill LucasArts' profits; and from a gameplay experience, you're tearing away an overall shallow and simplistic yet still relatively fun (for a while, at least, depending on your tastes in gaming) gaming experience.

.... Even if you do go ahead, you're not fuckin' with an abandonware product like DF/DF2JK, you're messing with a current release, a game that was released less than a fortnight ago.

I mean, no offense dude, but did you hit your head or something? Are you trying to get sued? I mean, no one out there in the world would be ballsy enough to start cutting in on products that haven't even hit five percent of their lifetime sales capacity, let alone LucasArts products.

You're either very brave, or very stupid, but take my word for it that this will end in tears one way or the other.

....

....

So you want to say that making this mod is illegal???? But why? There's a Mod for Battlefront 2 which ports ALL the Battlefront 1 maps, models, etc. into Battlefront 2, so that you're able to play Battlefront I and II without buying Battlefront 1.... So that must be illegal too, or not?

What about the Dark Forces Mod for JKA? That must also be illegal or not? Okay, Dark Forces is older than TFU... so when I wait for example 1 year until I'll release my Mod, then it's not illegal, right? How long do I have to wait?

I don't want to kill Lucasarts' profits! I'm not saying "I won't waste money for TFU..." I bought a X-Box 360 ONLY because I wanted to play the game...

[quote=Jose Carlos;4608967]While I'm not all head over heels in love with TFU, I still think there are some things that could be translated over to JA with a little jiggery-pokery. Like the increased knockback (which unfortunately affects everything that has knockback). Also, if you're gonna go through with making the mod, you'll need these:

Spoiler: Show
shot0010.jpgshot0011-2.jpgshot0012.jpg

Yes, I wanted to include throwable objects and droids as well. :naughty:




Mikouen VIP Member

What?

145,650 XP

4th September 2005

4 Uploads

11,732 Posts

2 Threads

#8 10 years ago

FireDragon100So you want to say that making this mod is illegal???? But why? There's a Mod for Battlefront 2 which ports ALL the Battlefront 1 maps, models, etc. into Battlefront 2, so that you're able to play Battlefront I and II without buying Battlefront 1.... So that must be illegal too, or not?

What about the Dark Forces Mod for JKA? That must also be illegal or not? Okay, Dark Forces is older than TFU... so when I wait for example 1 year until I'll release my Mod, then it's not illegal, right? How long do I have to wait?

I don't want to kill Lucasarts' profits! I'm not saying "I won't waste money for TFU..." I bought a X-Box 360 ONLY because I wanted to play the game...[/quote]It's not a matter of legality, because it'll never be legal for you to infringe on other people's copyrights. There's only what they will allow you to do, and what they will not allow you to do.

Are they going to allow you to do this? Probably not, because TFU and it's related materials are currently the main driving force of the franchise.

Dark Forces isn't even comparable to TFU when it comes to cases like this, because Dark Forces is abandonware - TFU likely isn't going to become abandonware, because thus far no developer has released ownership of console software; but even if that weren't the case, you're looking at an eight year wait (at least) before LucasArts stop caring - unless they go broke, but they won't, and if they did someone else would buy the Star Wars IP.

Erm... let me try and explain this from LucasArts' point of view.

Since LucasArts own all legal rights to the Star Wars IP, that officially means that in a case of copyright or intellectual property infractions, we have none. Therefore, while they have grounds to mount a certified legal challenge, we have no legal defenses.

They'll likely not regard how many sales TFU will pull in regardless of this project - all they'll care about is how many units might not sell, because of this project.

This is simple risk/gain assessment. There are two possibilities if they let you go ahead; people will buy the game anyway, or people won't buy the game.

If they let you go ahead and the first possibility occurs, they gain nothing. If they let you go ahead and the latter possibility occurs, they lose a lot.

In terms of risk versus gain, it's in their best interests to stop you in your tracks.

I'm not saying creating derivative works is illegal, even though technically it almost always is since you're using other people's IP.

What I am saying, is the following two things:

1) This isn't classed as a derivative work, since it will use all intellectual elements of TFU.

2) TFU isn't just a game. It's a brand new game. Those are - for all intents and purposes - taboo when it comes to fan-made remakes on other platforms. The reason for this is that the product is still going to be making the developers money (lots of money) for at least a couple of years, and they have to eliminate any threats to those profits in order to protect their business; therefore by targetting brand new games as source materials, you're making yourself a prime target.

Not even going to go into the sound and video files you'd have to use in order to convey TFU's storyline, because that moves us into an entirely new department of legalities.

The best thing you can do right now, is stop all activity within the project, consult with the LucasArts legal department, and wait for their answer. If they say no, then that's a legally-binding response outright forbidding any mod projects of this nature.

Asking questions before you act is a wise thing to do. It's the only way to avoid trouble.

It's red tape, of course it's red tape. But it's red tape that will protect you, so it's worth tolerating it for the sake of safety, even if like me you have no love for red tape at all.

Note that I'm not yelling at you or telling you off or anything, because I have no reason to. I'm just putting you in the loop on the legal concerns, because if you stumble into them.... it will hurt. Like, really badly.

Imagine getting hit by a car, landing at the top of a flight of stone stairs, rolling down them, having a stroke while you lie broken at the bottom of the stairs.... then throw in another suitcase full of hellish pain.

That's how much it's going to break your balls if the situation proceeds beyond a cease and desist order.

So yeah. Ask LucasArts first, and then take their response as gospel, because if you get into legal trouble for copyright infringement or IP theft, and have to go up against one of these big companies, you don't have a chance of winning - and I don't think you can afford to have the Father, Son and Holy Ghost sued out of you.

Hell, just ask Gir or the team behind the Chrono Resurrection project how badly they got slammed on by Squeenix. LucasArts aren't complete bastards like Squeenix, but they're just as ruthless.

As a personal suggestion, might I suggest creating a brand new story that runs alongside - or expands upon - TFU, as opposed to just replicating it? That will have three distinct advantages: 1) It will make your mod more unique, more original, and your own work (something you can take pride in). 2) It will give you much more creative freedom, so you can really have some fun and make things they way you want to make them. 3) It will keep LucasArts off your back. Maybe.

[quote=FireDragon100]There's a Mod for Battlefront 2 which ports ALL the Battlefront 1 maps, models, etc. into Battlefront 2, so that you're able to play Battlefront I and II without buying Battlefront 1.... So that must be illegal too, or not?

In a word.... yes.

As for the Dark Forces mod team, well. Abandonware is fair game, pretty much. But I do believe that consent was obtained by the first dev team nevertheless, which is always smart to do, abandonware or not.

Like I said, cover your ass, and it won't get bitten.

Also, just because someone does something, does not mean it's legal to do so. The one golden rule I have to give you is not to follow anyone's example, know your stuff (or do your research), and once you have the answers it's best to follow your own compass.

Oh, and, I'm sorry for going on at such great length. I find "freewriting" somewhat relaxing. Much more so with a pen, but a laptop keyboard works just as well, heh.


I don't know how, and I don't know why, but this is totally Sheep's fault.



FireDragon100

The Internet ends at GF

50 XP

27th August 2008

0 Uploads

123 Posts

0 Threads

#9 10 years ago

Okay then I'll stop it right here... sorry guys :( :bawl: :(:(:(

I'll ask LucasArts...

Do you know which department I have to ask? Or shall I just make a new thread in the LucasArts Forums???

:uhm:




Raiden47

Just another Assassin

50 XP

16th February 2008

0 Uploads

158 Posts

0 Threads

#10 10 years ago

Call their hotline maybe you finde it on lucasarts.com . But youßre not selling it and when you write in the credites that it isnt your idea it isnt illegal or not ?