modeler & skinner
16th May 2008
EDIT: forgot to say its my first time doing so
and i wanted some advice from people who actualy know how to do it right lol... just take a look at what i have so far, express any comments and constructive criticism on how i can make the polyflow or the traits better or w/e XD
pic with and without smoothing
15th March 2005
Why are there so many unnecessary edge loops in the forehead? I'm assuming there's a reason. If not you can remove most of those.
^ agreed, but don't worry too much now about that. First of all, lets fix a few anatomical issues:
Bridge of the nose is a bit long. So is distance between eyes and mouth. I think the problem is that the bridge of the nose *and* the part of the face as it goes up to the eyes is too long. you may be able to select everything over the bottom of the nose and move it down, and with a few minor edits have a normal distance with no changes in features at all.
From the bottom of the nose where you've divided wireframe and not wireframe, count 3 faces down and 2 faces to the right. Of that face, the bottom right vertex needs to be more to the right and all nearby vertexes aligned to have topology to match. That way, the angle going to the nose is more natural. At the moment, its vertical and sticks out too much. Changing the topology will do a lot for you.
Forehead curves are great and I'm glad you've put them in, but as you get to the scalp the curves should be getting flatter and flatter until eventually they reverse direction and turn into the curve of the top of the head.
Other than that, the flow of edges is quite good. But, as Inyri said, after you've finished, you will need to go through and delete redundant vertices that have no effect on the angles of other edges and replace faces. Its tedious, but saves on tris.
15th March 2005
How can you crit the design when you don't even know what he's trying to make? And no no no no no no no no no don't fix efficiency and polyflow problems at the end, fix it as you go along. It is so much less work to just do it right the first time than go back and completely rework the model at the end.
I didn't make it!
Inyri Forge;5375721How can you crit the design when you don't even know what he's trying to make?
I believe Pande is assuming that this is a human face being made here and is merely pointing out that the features are fairly extreme in those places for a human.
kitty dances for rep!
4th September 2004
Everyone has their own way of doing it, some start from a box with multiple subdivisions while others like myself like to do it starting from a single poly and extruding out from there. I learned from a simple tutorial that I wish I could share but the site no longer exists and my last attempt at making one failed when the video file got jacked up and it was too time consuming to redo. Whatever you do you should keep away from the meshsmooth tool that max has as well as trying to keep everything as quads. You need good high resolution images for rotoscopes and they need to be lined up not much short of perfectly. I usually start with a single quad on the bridge of the nose with one of the side edges in the center so that I can mirror once I have most of the nose done. Once you have enough to create your clone for the other side you can make that a sub-d mesh so you can sorta see what verts you need to tweak on the low poly model to get it looking as realistic as possible. As far as your model sits now, it can't be fixed at this point, you should start over. Asking for help here isn't going to get you very far since there really isn't anyone here that has done enough face modeling to teach it.
Inyri Forge;5375721How can you crit the design when you don't even know what he's trying to make? And no no no no no no no no no don't fix efficiency and polyflow problems at the end, fix it as you go along. It is so much less work to just do it right the first time than go back and completely rework the model at the end.
I've noticed a habit of you getting quite angry on posts when your idea of a good method is disputed... its getting ridiculous.
The reason to do it at the end is because it is less work in fact. The extra verts can be used to make new features in the model, rather than having to add more verts in because you made it too efficient in the begining. If he reduced verts in forehead then wanted to make it into and alien species with a bump on the forhead or something, (like bith?) he could use those verts to shape it. That is why. Or, if he stays human, he could just use the verts to create the scalp by selecting them all and moving them back, then deselecting front line, moving rest back, repeat.
And if they aren't necessary, then you delete them. If you do it at the end or the begining, its the same amount of work if you didn't use the extra verts I mentioned. You still have to delete them, you still have to replace the faces that are deleted when you remove a vert (or use automatic tools for that like Blender has).
15th March 2005
I'm not angry. And no, I would say it's not less work. It takes a lot longer, and if the polyflow is so bad the model has to be scrapped it's a lot of wasted effort, and it's not a good work ethic. I apologize if you don't like someone disagreeing with your method, but in my experience is a bad way to learn to model. If it works for you that's fine, but I wouldn't advise suggesting that ineffective and inefficient method to another new modeler.
The rule of thumb with modeling: it's much easier to add edge loops and vertices than it is to remove them. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find an experienced modeler that disagrees.
"it's much easier to add edge loops and vertices than it is to remove them. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find an experienced modeler that disagrees."
adding requires either 1. creating a new vertex, joining it to other vertexes, and finalizing its placement, deleting old faces that become because of the new vertex, creating new faces to fit or 2. subdividing an existing edge and moving the resulting vertex elsewhere to shape, deleting old faces that become because of the new vertex, creating new faces to fit.
Deleting one requires selecting it, deleting it, making new faces to replace deleted ones.
Even the amount of text required to say how much easier it is is less, by nature.
Anyway, on the topic of his model, I still believe that the edge loops in the forhead, regardless of how many they're are, need to be reshaped when they start into the scalp, and that the nose bridge is too long, and that the area above the lip is awkward.
just saw this:
"As far as your model sits now, it can't be fixed at this point, you should start over."
WOAH there, his model is REALLY easily fixed, and if he's having problems with it I'd gladly do it for him in 5 minutes if he sends me a .obj. Its much easier than starting over. :O
15th March 2005
I can tell you right now from experience that is a gross oversimplification of the process that isn't really accurate on anything but the most basic of levels.
By the way, pande, how many heads have you modeled? Just curious, since you seem to know a great deal about how to create them.