ported models -1 reply

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General Jaxun

Don't tread on me.

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9th July 2009

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#21 10 years ago

I couldn't agree more.




Authuran

Queef Richards

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2nd October 2005

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#22 10 years ago

Averus has spoken.

Still though, you should support your fellow modders, atleast the few of them that are still here.




Averus_Retruthan

...Or has it just begun?

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19th September 2006

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#23 10 years ago

A perfectly reasonable sentiment, I just can't go with it since the few modders I've met seem to have a little bit too high opinions of themselves, more often than not, excluding the exceptions, of course.




Raziel2121

Ninjas Are Cooler

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3rd September 2008

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#24 10 years ago

i dont have an issue with porting really as long as it is done well and like Averus said i doubt any one game company will really give a damn




Mikouen Advanced Member

What?

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4th September 2005

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#25 10 years ago
"Raziel2121"i doubt any one game company will really give a damn

I beg to differ on account of the fact I've had nasty letters from Square-Enix, LucasArts and Konami over the years, and there's not a chance in hell I'm gonna let anyone take away my justification for calling them a bunch of complete and utter wankers. :p

Most of them will let it slide if they're given the proper respect in the process. Problem with that is that they very rarely are.

One example is this EvilEngine guy who "mods" UT; everyone sucks his dick and he's completely happy to let them, but he has never released anything of a high standard that wasn't a direct port. He's not open about that fact, more to the contrary, he actively claims that he made the stuff. That guy's a perfect summary of all the problems with porting and plagiarism.


I don't know how, and I don't know why, but this is totally Sheep's fault.



GlitchMasterShmit

One and only...

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24th April 2007

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#26 10 years ago

I know the wall came down, but I'm serious about that last part...




Raziel2121

Ninjas Are Cooler

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3rd September 2008

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#27 10 years ago

Mikouen;4956320I beg to differ on account of the fact I've had nasty letters from Square-Enix, LucasArts and Konami over the years, and there's not a chance in hell I'm gonna let anyone take away my justification for calling them a bunch of complete and utter wankers. :p

Most of them will let it slide if they're given the proper respect in the process. Problem with that is that they very rarely are.

One example is this EvilEngine guy who "mods" UT; everyone sucks his dick and he's completely happy to let them, but he has never released anything of a high standard that wasn't a direct port. He's not open about that fact, more to the contrary, he actively claims that he made the stuff. That guy's a perfect summary of all the problems with porting and plagiarism.

well if your not giveing them the proper respect your asking for it lol i wasnt very clear in what i said tho lol i meant it more they wont care if proper credit is given and your arent makeing money with it




DiNeRo

modeler & skinner

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16th May 2008

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#28 10 years ago
Mikouen;4955770 Not only is making stuff from scratch the honest thing to do, but it also results in higher quality products all around, as well as vastly more capable and experienced modders and a significantly lower model of the fakers which irk minilogoguy so much.

fanmade models look better than ported ones? oh come on, im not supporting porting but what you said is just complete utter bullsh.. look at i unno Gir's seph model and at the Crisis Core seph model, is the fanmade REALY better?

also the problem nowadays is theres not enough good modelers while weighing is much easier, therefore its much easier to get your hands on a ported good looking model then even a bad looking fanmade one, not even talkin about good fanmade ones




Mikouen Advanced Member

What?

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4th September 2005

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#29 10 years ago

Quality != looking good.

Okay, so your argument is that ported stuff looks better than the stuff people make. So answer me this.

Why don't people have the skills to make stuff of equal or better quality to ports?

Almost everyone who did moved on, and those who are left behind just say "I can't do that!" out of laziness more than incapability.

Learning how to model is just like learning how to do anything else. It typically has two phases.

The first stage is learning the software; you can't just jump in and use it, take the time to find out where all the tools are and what they can do.

The second stage is experience, which is how you learn everything the tutorials can't teach you; a good sense for what each tool is capable of, and how you can manipulate/combine tools in unorthodox ways to get your effects, effective use of polygons, etc etc basically all the stuff you'd see building up and improving over time if you looked at any skilled modellers' portfolio.

That's all it really is. Experience. There's no talent or natural aptitude behind it, just experience, same with most other life skills like carpentry or drawing or cooking. Practice and you get better. If you think any of the Girs or HapSlashes or SJCs of the world woke up one morning to learn they'd been bitten by a radioactive polygon and gained super modding powers..... Put the fscking comic books down and step outside. :smack:

Still, I'm maintaining that from-scratch materials tailored towards a specific engine's characteristics will always be of a higher quality, as well as allowing higher fidelity to the source material while preserving the atmospheric look and feel of the game you're importing to (excluding obvious reality-breakers like Spartans and Terminators in Oblivion, or ninjas and Rent-A-Zillas in L4D).

[size="1"](Seriously, never let anything become a zombie that's hard to kill. And if you're stupid enough to let a zilla get zombified, don't leave fingerprints on the empty pork rind bags. That's how Largo got busted.)[/size]

As I said, and as you quoted. People who port are (in the vast majority of cases) incapable of creating quality mod products. That significantly limits what they'd ever be able to contribute to the community.

Ask yourself if it's really worth supporting these people in their porting endeavours, in lieu of genuine modders who may produce ten, twenty or even thirty quality hand-crafted mods over the course of their career. Also ask yourself if it's worth encouraging them to carry on porting, rather than encouraging them to develop real modding skills and expanding their potential contributions to a wider range of materials as well as original creations.

Games are a lot like television networks. Without quality broadcasting, the viewers will pick up that remote and flick over elsewhere. Heh, story of FOX's life....


I don't know how, and I don't know why, but this is totally Sheep's fault.



Manganiac

I like Pikachu

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16th September 2005

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#30 10 years ago

Claiming that fanmade models aint of good quality... deliberately closing your eyes to, let's say... nearly all the Star Wars model contents submited to Jk3files to date.

Technically a fan model will never be equal to that of another game's, and even if it could or if the resemblance is good enough, then it would still not be the same model (for the psychological factor alone) even if it can be made better, with more details, more shaders, according to the character's original concept more than anything, it would still not be the same freaking model...

People don't rely on this "ethical code" to stay away from getting warnings or sued, they do it because this "ethical code" alone is very important to them. No news there, I'm just speaking up to what's already on everyone's mind, competent modders or not, everybody knows, everybody understands it, but a good portion just chooses not to stick with it. I'm just glad there's still one place for that on the internet

anyways... it's a personal educational matter more than anything else, people need to educate themselves (because obviously daddy and mommy failed at it)...

Path of the Competent Modder: starts producing fan content out of swet, learns about proper modelling, improves, makes better stuff, Zbrush, move on, by then he/she has a portfolio, advertise, profit, invitations, profit.

Path of the Porter: port, learns porting, ports faster, ports a lot, get a lot of fans, becomes a celebrity, comunity has a change of heart about porting, backstab! depression, moves away, starts new name on Deviantart, starts using Poser 5! starts getting pageviews! advertise, get turned down, move on, get reported! Ban! do it all over again somewhere else...