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>Omen<

Modern Warfare

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1st January 2005

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#1 12 years ago

OK, I know this post may seem disgustingly long to some, but if you hang in there and keep reading you just might find some info in it you weren't aware of, which could affect your hardware purchase decisions to come. If any of you think you have info to share which may be harder to get than mere online browsing, please contribute. Do take into account the policy on not posting unauthorized mag pics though! CPUs AMD is reportedly releasing their new quad core processors in August which will be the first to use four cores on one silicone layer having a shared cache. These will be Opteron server grade chips with consumer grade ones to follow. Intel is said to be hoping to release their version of a quad core with shared cache by the end of the year. Word is the big "I" guys still have the "A" camp beat on die size though, reportedly targeting 45nm rather than AMD's 65nm. Rumor has it Intel will even have an 8 core processor in 2008. These new shared cache chips by Intel are going to run on DDR3 RAM, though I don't think this will be the case with the AMDs, at least not yet. I read an article that said 2009, but that seems a ways off. Suffice it to say it looks like Intel will have the first CPUs running on DDR3. Meantime Intel has released their E##50 series CPUs having a lower 8x multiplier vs the E##00 series 10x. They will not likely overclock as well because of this but offer great value. They also run the FSB at 1333Mhz to account for the current two Core 2 Duos on one die quads which use the FSB rather than shared cache. GPUs Nvidia of course is working on their next graphic series to run on the G90 GPU. Word is it will be a whopping 3 times faster than the G80. I'm guessing the top end versions of these cards are the ones that will use at least one eight pin power connector and likely a 6 pin along with it. I have already seen lots of PSs equipped with eight and 6+2 connectors. MBs Still not too many MBs out there that run a full 16x by 16x in SLI, and of course all that do are Nvidia based 680i chipsets. Truth be told, though I love the latest Intel CPUs, I am anxiously awaiting seeing tests of the AMD quad cores, especially in SLI mode. There still seems to be a bit of a dilemma with Intel CPU/Nvidia chipset combos not working quite as fast and reliably as Intel CPU/Intel chipset combos. It will be nice to see how well AMDs quad cores fare as their CPUs have been pretty compatible with Nvidia chipsets without any extra compatibility chips required as with the Nvidia chipsets that support Intel CPUs. RAM As mentioned DDR3 is the next big thing, but still VERY pricey. I'm already seeing CAS latencies of 7 which may be a good sign. DDR bottoms out at 2, DDR2 at 4, so seeing 7 early on for DDR3 I would think may mean the added speeds might really start becoming very noticeable. I wonder if a CAS of 6 will be possible? Phys X Cards Word is Nvidia, despite having built virtual physics processing into their 8800s via software layering is going to build their own physics accelerator card. I've heard it's intended use is to be mounted between two cards running in SLI on 680i equipped MBs. HDs Still love my WD Raptors but I'd like to see Seagate make a 10,000 RPM Barracuda with their Perpendicular Recording. All the better with the 16MB buffer. Optical Drives LG's got the first HD DVD/Blu Ray combo drive which writes on all formats but HD DVD and writes at 4x on Blu Ray. WHEN 4x media is actually available for Blu Ray that is. At $1000 though it won't be flying out the door. There's always the Lite-On Blu Ray combo drive for about $500. NEC has an internal HD DVD (read only on HD) drive said to be going for similar to slightly higher pricing and HD DVD burners are coming soon as well. Audio Though I love the sound quality of my M-Audio Revolution, I am liking the great deals I've found on the Creative X-Fi Platinum Fatal1ty seen for well under $150 at times. If you can't find one of these at a reduced price there is the Extreme Gamer Fatal1ty Pro for much less and is the same thing with no controller box and remote. The remote alone on the Platinum is quite a marvel of engineering though and makes flipping through settings a breeze. It even has scroll wheels to flip through settings pages. PSs On PSs I keep coming back to the PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad. They are experienced at PS tech, have great construction albeit a bit atypical, and offer accommodations for changing gear like those 8 pin connectors mentioned above. If you believe in modular cables merely to save some careful routing, multiple 12v rails, and the standard size shell, this is not for you. However if you read up on the features mentioned you will find that modular cables are less likely to produce consistent voltage, multiple rails often create power distribution problems rather than solve them, and cramped shells can cause turbulence and therefore noise with parts being close to the fan. This is simply one of the best PS out there and can be had for well under $200. I just contacted PCP&C and found that though they are now part of the OCZ Technology group, their PSs are still manufactured the very same as they were before. I also asked about the possibility of them making their cables longer and he said they've discussed doing that, so keep an eye out for possible further changes. The current cables on the Silencer 750 Quad are 20" at the ATX connector and 22" at the CPU connector. This is likely long enough to fit most applications but having enough length to stuff the cables away and out of the air flow is another story. Cases I tend to swing toward the quiet end of case design being as I use my system for multipurpose. I love some things about my Kingwin KT-424 case, like the rubber grommets for the HDs, and the great airflow, but I am finding in some ways it's just another trendy alu case that vibrates too much to be really quiet. Besides silence and good air flow, cable management and dust filtration are very important to me. Both of the cases mentioned below have all 4 features. There's nothing more annoying than a noisy case when trying to hear soft dialogue in a movie. Although the Antec P 182 is not everything I'd like it to be, it comes pretty close. It's not technically certified for 8800GTX SLI but is capable of it when the upper HD cage is removed and the proper slot configuration of MB is used (detailed below). Who would put an additional 4 HDs in a mid tower anyway when the bottom cage can hold that many? One reservation I have about it is that in the US it's priced 30-40 bucks higher than it's predecessor while UK customers pay the same as the P 180 costs. I have a feeling once a lot of US customers get wind of this the price will drop dramatically. $170 seems a bit high anyway. Another reservation I have is the need to use a MB that has it's SLI slots in the 3rd & 4th positions so the video cards sit low enough to fit in the upper HD bay area. I just called Antec though and spoke with their supervisor whom said he'd been getting lots of requests from customers to offer their new P 190 case without the dual PSs it comes with as an option. PSs are a very personal preference thing to many of those building high end custom rigs and I think they are starting to realize that. Their higher end PSs are great, and my Truepower 550w is still going strong after over 2.5 years and LOTS of gaming, but individual needs and tastes vary greatly in this type of equipment so good move if Antec can provide such an option. He said he plans to suggest this option to Antec and you can bet he has a lot of pull being in direct and constant contact with the consumers. The P 190 is deep enough to fit the longer video cards and even comes with a bracket to hold the front end of the cards in place. One thing that keeps me coming back to Antec is their eager willingness to listen to their customers. I suggested they go one step further and make the huge side fan on the P 190 optional. Their supervisor told me in fact that it is too cumbersome with some CPU coolers in place, and we all know aftermarket CPU coolers are common with gaming enthusiasts. My choice between the P 182 and P 190 will likely come down to my choice of MB and the case prices at the time of my next build, though I certainly don't plan on compromising MB choices for lack of SLI fit. It's going to have to be a thing where the P 182 happens to fit it if I go that route. LCD Displays & HD Tips There are more semi large size displays trickling onto the market using a 1920x1200 res, which may become one of the most popular native resolutions when HD video replaces DVD. Some say 24" is still better than these new 25.5" - 28" ones due to using a smaller dot pitch at the same native resolution (.27). In the 25.5" - 28" sizes the dot pitch varies from .286 to .309. This may not be enough for some to notice a drastic difference in desktop appearance but text WILL look larger or smaller depending on your pitch. One drawback to the big 30" displays is their .25 dot pitch makes text tiny at the native resolution. I'm kinda liking what I've read about the Planar 26" (S-IPS panel) and Samsung 27" (S-PVA panel) units so far, but this tech is changing fast so I try to stay apprised of the latest advances. I have to wonder though with the advent of the G90 GPU if the behemoth 30" displays and their 2560x1600 native resolutions will become more practical in the HTPC arena. It seems to me with a top end G90 card one would not necessarily need SLI to run these big babies at their native res, which could make such displays popular enough to drop their prices. If you want a multipurpose display though keep in mind a few basic principles. The cheaper panels are faster and great for gaming but use pixel blending to create many of the colors as they're 6 vs 8 bit. This means they aren't very good for movies. On the other hand, it takes a pretty good panel of the more expensive type to be fast enough for gaming. Add to that the expense of "Overdrive" to minimize ghosting and you're into $1000 and up pricing for anything above 26". Although the 25.5" Acer is an affordable option at around $600. If you want to play HD video on your display make sure it is HDCP compliant. Many that have resolutions high enough to support HD video (at least 1920x1080) are not. Word is the display must be Vista compatible too as HD video is protected against piracy via software contained in Vista. Therefore an alternate PC OS will not run it. Your video card even needs to be HDCP compliant. Thus, Vista, an HDCP display, and an HDCP video card are all required for both Blu Ray and HD DVD movie watching. You may not think this important now but if you are currently playing DVDs on your PC consider that HD videos will soon replace them. Contrary to what some may have heard, read, or assumed, an HDMI port is NOT necessary for HD Video. DVI carries a high enough res signal for HD. The only difference is HDMI can carry HD video AND audio, but in an HTPC setup your audio is carried straight from your sound card to your speakers. Just MAKE SURE you use a DUAL LINK DVI cable if you decide on a 30" display. The higher 2560x1600 native resolution is not supported by standard single link DVI, which tops out at 2212 x 1243. For a well rounded HTPC setup you will need a TV tuner card and there I find the best solution is the ATI Theater 650 PCI Ex which uses a PCI Ex 1x slot. It pulls in both anaolg and HD OTA signals and has TV quality features like comb filtering. The PCI Ex interface will allow you to run SLI with a soundcard without requiring a second PCI slot, which is rare with SLI, especially when two robust video cards are used. You will need a fairly unobstructed air path to local TV towers and HD broadcasts in your area to pull in HDTV on this type of device. The software they come with can also be a bit tricky to use but you'll have best results with a Media Center version of Windows, preferably at least Vista Home Premium if you want to view HD videos as well as HD broadcasts. There has been a bit of misconception among some interested in HD video on the 8000 series cards. Somehow when they read that the 8600s have more robust HD video acceleration (PureVideo HD) than the 8800s do they often panic into thinking they won't be able to play HD video on the 8800 cards. This is not true at all, it merely means you will need a dual core processor to play HD video on a 8800 and the 8600s can do so with a single core. This is a practical move by Nvidia as it allows consumers to choose moderately priced CPUs for a family media based system and conversely those interested in 8800s will likely not mind and even plan on using a dual core CPU anyway. ATI seems to also be using such HD video acceleration on their mid level cards. There is a new video interface standard on the horizon called DisplayPort that is being backed by most of the big players in computer tech. DisplayPort carries both video and audio as well as clock signals. Version 1.1 of DisplayPort was just approved by VESA (Video Electronics Standards Association) April 2nd 2007 and is on track to becoming THE new standard in video interfaces. Samsung has already been showing off it's new 30" display which uses DisplayPort. This display is said to have an S-PVA panel, 10 bit color depth and 6ms response time! It's DisplayPort interface transmits graphics data at 10.8Gbps - more than double that of current transmission speeds! The LCD screen is capable of producing 1.07bn colors, which Samsung claims would usually require at least three DVI or four LVDS interface chips. Word is mass production of these units will start sometime in Q2 of 2008. The physical connection for DisplayPort at first glance looks very similar to HDMI, but lacks the trimmed corners. It is also made in both latching and non latching plugs, most I've seen are latching though. Picture a rectangular HDMI size plug with one of those latch bumps on the back that ethernet plugs have. This makes it great for a wide variety of applications including laptops. You will need to keep the cable length under 10' to support 2560x1600 though, and 1080p is not supported at lengths over 15'. Here are the manufacturers that currently back DisplayPort: AMD/ATI, Intel, Dell, Genesis Microchip, HP, Lenovo, Molex, Nvidia, Philips, Samsung, Analogix, and Tyco Electronics. The video card and display are very major expenses with typical 3 year warranties, so think about what you purchase there if you upgrade or replace your rig soon. One word of warning, make sure you know the specifics on the dead pixel policy the manufacturer of the display you plan on getting goes by as they can vary quite a bit. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Well I know I left a lot of holes in this mini report, but the intent is to just stimulate discussion and let others jump in with what they know, anticipate, and may want to ask. Fast forward to the end of '08 and the above will be common place. Will YOU be ready for it? icon_smile.gif




Kwould

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#2 12 years ago
>Omen<;3850072Word is the big "I" guys still have the "A" camp beat on die size though, reportedly targeting 45nm rather than AMD's 65nm. Rumor has it Intel will even have an 8 core processor in 2008. These new shared cache chips by Intel are going to run on DDR3 RAM, though I don't think this will be the case with the AMDs, at least not yet...

The first AMD Phenom quad and dual core CPU's will only support DDR2 and will also "only" be on a 65nm die. However, the Deneb/Propus/Regor cores (which are expected to be released in Q2 '08) will support both DDR2 and DDR3 and will be on a 45nm die. All three sockets from AMD: AM2, AM2+, AM3 will be physically and electrically identical (same number of pins, same wattage/current requirements) making the newer CPU's backward compatible. There will also be AMD's FASN8 platform. Featuring dual socket Phenom FX quad cores (8 cores), HyperTransport 3.0, 32 PCI Express 2.0 lanes and "Quad Crossfire". FASN8 is due to be released this fall.




&gt;Omen&lt;

Modern Warfare

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#3 12 years ago
Kwould;3850519The first AMD Phenom quad and dual core CPU's will only support DDR2 and will also "only" be on a 65nm die. However, the Deneb/Propus/Regor cores (which are expected to be released in Q2 '08) will support both DDR2 and DDR3 and will be on a 45nm die. All three sockets from AMD: AM2, AM2+, AM3 will be physically and electrically identical (same number of pins, same wattage/current requirements) making the newer CPU's backward compatible. There will also be AMD's FASN8 platform. Featuring dual socket Phenom FX quad cores (8 cores), HyperTransport 3.0, 32 PCI Express 2.0 lanes and "Quad Crossfire". FASN8 is due to be released this fall.

Great!!! Thanks so much for jumping in here Kwould. Like I said, I left lots of holes, but I knew others may likely fill in where needed. OMG, AMD is the king of backwards compatability. I really, really like that about them! This is going to help the consumer market loads too as it's much needed competition. How many big name manufacturers anymore care to make high tech gear, especially main pieces like MBs, long lasting from one CPU generation to the next? Clearly Intel has the opposite mindset. It's not surprising they quickly threw out two Core 2 Duo on one die quads, but AMD having AM2, AM2+, AM3 AND DDR2/3 all compatible, man that's a kick in Intel's planned obsolescence pants. OK, questions, are Deneb/Propus/Regor cores server grade chips or consumer grade? Do you know if Quad Crossfire is two double cards like Nvidia's Quad SLI? Also, I've heard rumors for a while that the external connectors ATI uses for Crossfire would eventually be replaced with ones more like Nvidia uses. Has that happened yet? After ATIs 2900XTX not being able to match Nvidia's top card the one looming question on a lot of people's minds is, can ATI make a one card solution to match or beat Nvidia's top cards? If the 9800GTX is really 3 times faster than the 8800GTX as claimed, that will be a difficult task. The single card race is always what defines a great chip manufacturer IMO because many would rather use just one card or can't afford two. It also makes sense to leave adding a 2nd for a later upgrade when the games demand it. I have to say though the one thing that keeps me disinterested in SLI is that the games have to be written for it, with good driver support. ATI's hardware has good image quality but after owning my first ATI card (X800XT) for nearly 3 years now the one thing I don't like is their driver support. It also stutters a lot in games like Doom3, HL2, FEAR, and STALKER, though the latter is not really fair to say as that game stutters on most rigs. Since their merger with AMD, I have been hoping ATI's driver support and customer service would get better, though I can't say I'm thrilled with what I'm hearing about Nvidia's lately. Kwould I am now officially naming you this thread's AMD expert. If you can contribute anything more about their and/or ATI's stuff I would appreciate it. BTW, I forgot to add this in to the above mini report in the GPU section: For those of you considering an 8000 series card or ANY current ('07) DX10 compatible card, you may want to hold off. Word is DirectX 10.1, due early '08, is not supported by the first gen (DX10.0) hardware. The feature set for DX10.1 includes shader 4.1, 5 new API, improved rendering quality, forced floating point 32 rendering, and forced 4x multi-sample AA. Vista SP1 will be required for DX10.1 so it should release by early '08 too and likely prior to DX10.1. Word is DX10 may even be ported to XP.




Stark98

I would die without GF

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25th March 2005

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#4 12 years ago

wow actually great post! Mmh a 8 quad processor? oke great but are we able to use all that? and how about the price ? by the way, i just bought my 8800 gts card, and im gonna keep it. Oke 10.1 all wonderful but its gonna take some time i think.




C38368

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#5 12 years ago

Thread needs help.

>Omen<;3850072CPUs AMD is reportedly releasing their new quad core processors in August which will be the first to use four cores on one silicone layer having a shared cache. These will be Opteron server grade chips with consumer grade ones to follow. Intel is said to be hoping to release their version of a quad core with shared cache by the end of the year. Word is the big "I" guys still have the "A" camp beat on die size though, reportedly targeting 45nm rather than AMD's 65nm. Rumor has it Intel will even have an 8 core processor in 2008. These new shared cache chips by Intel are going to run on DDR3 RAM, though I don't think this will be the case with the AMDs, at least not yet. I read an article that said 2009, but that seems a ways off. Suffice it to say it looks like Intel will have the first CPUs running on DDR3.[/QUOTE] -Penryn will be four cores on one die, and is just as likely as not to be released before Phenom. Not that it really matters, as all you'll have is some marketbabble about how the other guy's core isn't really quad core, kinda like what AMD's been saying since Kentsfield was launched. Nevermind that they haven't been able to realease anything quad, two dice or not. -Intel has already finished completely converting a fab to 45nm, and is capable of going into production as soon as the design is completed. Conroe and Merom are currently built on a 65nm process. -The P35 (and presumably X38) chipsets from Intel already support DDR3. The ASUS P5K3 has slots for both.
Meantime Intel has released their E##50 series CPUs having a lower 8x multiplier vs the E##00 series 10x. They will not likely overclock as well because of this but offer great value. They also run the FSB at 1333Mhz to account for the current two Core 2 Duos on one die quads which use the FSB rather than shared cache.
WTF? The multipliers are still different for every speed grade, because the native FSB is constant. The only difference between Exx00 and Exx50 is that the native FSB clock was bumped from 266MHz to 333MHz. This does mean that for any effective clock, the multi has been dropped, but as noted, it's different for every effective clock grade. To clarify a couple points that you may or may not understand: Conroe has two cores using a shared 4MB cache, and are available with both a 1066 and 1333MHz FSB. Allendale is two cores using a shared 2MB cache, and have the same FSB options. All Kentsfield processors (Core 2 Quads) run a 1066MHz effective FSB.
GPUs Nvidia of course is working on their next graphic series to run on the G90 GPU. Word is it will be a whopping 3 times faster than the G80. I'm guessing the top end versions of these cards are the ones that will use at least one eight pin power connector and likely a 6 pin along with it. I have already seen lots of PSs equipped with eight and 6+2 connectors.
They will probably require more power than a railgun, but G90 will not be "three times faster" than G80 in any form that actually matters to end users. We can hope, however, that we start seeing some driver support that allows the offloading of certain calculations to the GPU, much like AMD/ATI are doing with their video cards and projects like F@H. This would also make for a more elegant--if inflexible--physics solution than a standalone card (see below).
MBs Still not too many MBs out there that run a full 16x by 16x in SLI, and of course all that do are Nvidia based 680i chipsets. Truth be told, though I love the latest Intel CPUs, I am anxiously awaiting seeing tests of the AMD quad cores, especially in SLI mode. There still seems to be a bit of a dilemma with Intel CPU/Nvidia chipset combos not working quite as fast and reliably as Intel CPU/Intel chipset combos. It will be nice to see how well AMDs quad cores fare as their CPUs have been pretty compatible with Nvidia chipsets without any extra compatibility chips required as with the Nvidia chipsets that support Intel CPUs.
Yeah, except for all those nF4 and nF5-based boards that supported full 16x/16x in SLI. nVIDIA chipsets have trouble with Intel processors due to the fact that Intel doesn't like sharing without extorting first (this is also why you need hacked drivers to run SLI on Intel chispets). I'd like to see this change, but nVIDIA's engineers kinda suck anyway; 680i is a piss-poor excuse for a finished product, in my opinion.
RAM As mentioned DDR3 is the next big thing, but still VERY pricey. I'm already seeing CAS latencies of 7 which may be a good sign. DDR bottoms out at 2, DDR2 at 4, so seeing 7 early on for DDR3 I would think may mean the added speeds might really start becoming very noticeable. I wonder if a CAS of 6 will be possible?
DDR2 bottoms at CAS3. DDR3 will probably come close before it's replaced.
Phys X Cards
...are essentially dead. They're either be mandatory for pretty gaming by the end of 2008, or a distant memory (rather like RDRAM) by then.
Audio Though I love the sound quality of my M-Audio Revolution, I am liking the great deals I've found on the Creative X-Fi Platinum Fatal1ty seen for well under $150 at times. If you can't find one of these at a reduced price there is the Extreme Gamer Fatal1ty Pro for much less and is the same thing with no controller box and remote. The remote alone on the Platinum is quite a marvel of engineering though and makes flipping through settings a breeze. It even has scroll wheels to flip through settings pages.
Yes, and it's a pity that Creative spends all of their R&D budget on things like breakout boxen and remotes, rather than on drivers and sound quality. It is an extreme shame, too: Creative owns E-MU, which has some of the best prosumer cards on the market.
PSs On PSs I keep coming back to the PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad. They are experienced at PS tech, have great construction albeit a bit atypical, and offer accommodations for changing gear like those 8 pin connectors mentioned above. If you believe in modular cables merely to save some careful routing, multiple 12v rails, and the standard size shell, this is not for you. However if you read up on the features mentioned you will find that modular cables are less likely to produce consistent voltage, multiple rails often create power distribution problems rather than solve them, and cramped shells can cause turbulence and therefore noise with parts being close to the fan. This is simply one of the best PS out there and can be had for well under $200.

And it's a funny thing, that nobody can actually point to objective proof that modular cables actually impact performance of PSUs in any way. There's also a very real reason that the ATX12V design guide specifies multiple +12v rails, and as with modular cables above, I'm not seeing a massive outcry of 8800GTX Ultra owners whining about rail instability on PSUs that adhere to the guide...

Contrary to what some may have heard, read, or assumed, an HDMI port is NOT necessary for HD Video. DVI carries a high enough res signal for HD. The only difference is HDMI can carry HD video AND audio, but in an HTPC setup your audio is carried straight from your sound card to your speakers. Just MAKE SURE you use a DUAL LINK DVI cable if you decide on a 30" display. The higher 2560x1600 native resolution is not supported by standard single link DVI, which tops out at 2212 x 1243.

I was going to ignore the entire section on displays, until I saw this little gem. HDMI is also encrypted, and some sources or receivers will not output or accept a signal sent over anything other than HDMI.

[QUOTE[There has been a bit of misconception among some interested in HD video on the 8000 series cards. Somehow when they read that the 8600s have more robust HD video acceleration (PureVideo HD) than the 8800s do they often panic into thinking they won't be able to play HD video on the 8800 cards. This is not true at all, it merely means you will need a dual core processor to play HD video on a 8800 and the 8600s can do so with a single core. This is a practical move by Nvidia as it allows consumers to choose moderately priced CPUs for a family media based system and conversely those interested in 8800s will likely not mind and even plan on using a dual core CPU anyway. ATI seems to also be using such HD video acceleration on their mid level cards.[/QUOTE] The technology is there. Thus, there is no excuse for nVIDIA to not include it with their high-end offerings.

Kwould;3850519The first AMD Phenom quad and dual core CPU's will only support DDR2 and will also "only" be on a 65nm die. However, the Deneb/Propus/Regor cores (which are expected to be released in Q2 '08) will support both DDR2 and DDR3 and will be on a 45nm die.

Based on this, it sounds like Intel will beat AMD to maket with native quad core.

[QUOTE=>Omen<;3850533]How many big name manufacturers anymore care to make high tech gear, especially main pieces like MBs, long lasting from one CPU generation to the next? Clearly Intel has the opposite mindset. It's not surprising they quickly threw out two Core 2 Duo on one die quads, but AMD having AM2, AM2+, AM3 AND DDR2/3 all compatible, man that's a kick in Intel's planned obsolescence pants.

See above, a ways. Intel's current consumer platform is pin- and electrical-compatible across all LGA775 CPUs. P35 & X38 will support all LGA775 CPUs through Penryn and possibly (but unlikely) it's successor. Bother chipsets also support both DDR2 and DDR3. That hardly fits the definition of planned obsolesence in my eyes.




Acualy Is Confusingkid

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#6 12 years ago
Phys X Cards Word is Nvidia, despite having built virtual physics processing into their 8800s via software layering is going to build their own physics accelerator card. I've heard it's intended use is to be mounted between two cards running in SLI on 680i equipped MBs

BETWEEN 2 gfx cards? they better put the pci-e slots further apart and make the sli bridge longer if they dont want cooling problems.




Kwould

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#7 12 years ago
>Omen<;3850533OK, questions, are Deneb/Propus/Regor cores server grade chips or consumer grade? Do you know if Quad Crossfire is two double cards like Nvidia's Quad SLI?[/quote] Reportedly said cores are to be server/FX grade. According to what I have read, Quad Crossfore will not be the same as Nvidia's Quad SLI. AMD's idea is to have 3 GPU's render graphics and 1 GPU handle the physics. This of course depends on software maker support and how well they can tweak their drivers. In all reality, I would imagine Quad Crossfire is still in the engineering phases.
Also, I've heard rumors for a while that the external connectors ATI uses for Crossfire would eventually be replaced with ones more like Nvidia uses. Has that happened yet?
I have read the same thing (though from where escapes me) AMD/ATI is supposedly going to replace the cable with a bridge connector soon, if it hasn't already. [quote=Sovereign001]Mmh a 8 quad processor? oke great but are we able to use all that? and how about the price ?

Meaning 2 quad core CPU's on the same board. I'm not sure what anyone not using a high-traffic server would need that much CPU power for or what they would use it on. I am sure that the price will be close to a small fortune however.




&gt;Omen&lt;

Modern Warfare

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#8 12 years ago

Thanks for filling a few holes there C38368, as I DID say I left some, though much of what you said is either a matter of opinion and/or contrary to what I've read. For instance most seem to have the opinion that AMD is far better at CPU upgrade paths than Intel. I tried not to color the post with any bias brand wise though. Intel and Nvidia have been leading the pack for a while now, though they certainly could be doing some things better. Suffice it to say that anything we disagree on and/or speculate about will soon be proven next year. Oh, and btw, I DID mention that Intel chipsets still work best with Intel CPUs, so no need for all the comment there really. "There still seems to be a bit of a dilemma with Intel CPU/Nvidia chipset combos not working quite as fast and reliably as Intel CPU/Intel chipset combos." The thread wasn't intended to be the end all be all of next gen hardware talk, just few tid bits I've gleaned. It DOES however have some stuff in it many aren't even aware of yet, like DisplayPort which you didn't even comment on I noticed.;)




Bs|Archaon

I would die without GF

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#9 12 years ago
>Omen<;3855880For instance most seem to have the opinion that AMD is far better at CPU upgrade paths than Intel.

For some reason, a lot of people do. Which is strange when you consider that in the time Intel has used LGA775, AMD has gone through 754, 940, 939 and is now on AM2. Perhaps it's because some Intel processors don't work on certain chipsets (e.g. you can't use a Core 2 Duo on a 915 or 925 board, as far as I know)?




&gt;Omen&lt;

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#10 12 years ago

Ah yes, but the topic of the thread is "Future Talk". AMD is now said to be offering AM2, AM2+, AND AM3 ALL on the same socket and voltage. Granted AMD did slip into the different socket per chip trend there for a while, but previously they were much better at upgrade paths than Intel. BTW, there's another interesting find I've come across. I recently read if you patch into an HDMI port on a display via DVI out from your PC with an adapter or hybrid cable, the text looks noticably worse than going DVI to DVI. I always assumed my poor text quality on my HDTV (secondary display) was due to it being CRT TV and not a monitor or panel TV. I've read it's noticable even on panel displays though, but perhaps not as bad on HDMI equipped panel monitors. Maybe this is partly why HDMI ports are now showing up on MBs and video cards. A lot of people that want their display to be multipurpose have been using HDTVs as monitors, but many don't have DVI ports. I am looking forward to seeing reviews on PCs and displays equipped with DisplayPort. It sounds to be an inerface better than both HDMI and DVI.




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