how well does EM64T work? 23 replies

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carl4286

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#11 13 years ago

I've dont a lot of looking into the BTX vs ATX issue. The most prominant advantage that I see in the BTX form factor is that the HSF is mounted through the motherboard, straight onto the inside of the case. The maximum reccomended heastink weight for ATX is 450g, while the maximum for BTX is 1000g. This is the heatsink that I've chosen, and I don't think you'll find many like it for the ATX form factor. It has 57 fins, almost a full square meter of surface area, two heatpipes, a copper contact surface, a 92mm fan that moves 62CFM's at only 28dB, and has a heat dissipation of up to 130W (at 28dB).... and it only weights 16g more that Intel's recommended max. Fan's on BTX heatsinks actualy protrude about 1cm below the motherboard, providing a small amount of airflow underneath the motherboard, a direct path of air across the MOFSET's, and the NB heatsinks ends up about 1cm infront of the HSF, so that stays nice and cool. My PSU uses a single 120mm fan that operates at only 18dB under normal load, and I have two 80mm exhaust fans at 22dB that each move about 30CFM of air. That's 60CFM's coming in through the front (which is all mesh in my black CoolerMaster case), and about 75CFM's leaving through the back... it doesn't have as few fan's as BTX was desinged to run with, but they're all moving in the same direction. If anything, I'm going for lower temperatures at the same noise level. A 1016g heatsink with 57 aluminum fins will sure as hell get me there. And about the GMA950, like I said, it won't play any new games. But you can say that its the best integrated graphics out there right now with a straight face.

The InquirerIntel predicts that by 2006, 50 per cent of PCs will use BTX

BTX may not be the logical choice now, but hopefully it will be soon.




C38368

...burning angel wings to dust

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#12 13 years ago
carl4286I've dont a lot of looking into the BTX vs ATX issue. The most prominant advantage that I see in the BTX form factor is that the HSF is mounted through the motherboard, straight onto the inside of the case. The maximum reccomended heastink weight for ATX is 450g, while the maximum for BTX is 1000g. This is the heatsink that I've chosen, and I don't think you'll find many like it for the ATX form factor. It has 57 fins, almost a full square meter of surface area, two heatpipes, a copper contact surface, a 92mm fan that moves 62CFM's at only 28dB, and has a heat dissipation of up to 130W (at 28dB).... and it only weights 16g more that Intel's recommended max.

You're delusional. I've seen that heatsink. I've heard that fan. It is not 28dB installed.

Fan's on BTX heatsinks actualy protrude about 1cm below the motherboard, providing a small amount of airflow underneath the motherboard, a direct path of air across the MOFSET's, and the NB heatsinks ends up about 1cm infront of the HSF, so that stays nice and cool. My PSU uses a single 120mm fan that operates at only 18dB under normal load, and I have two 80mm exhaust fans at 22dB that each move about 30CFM of air.

You may not realise this, but a 1cm spillover isn't going to get you anything appreciable with respect to cooling the back of the board. And when you get right down to it, you'll need to install heatsinks back there anyway if you expect to effectively cool anything through the PCB. That in turn will require you to cut away the motherboard tray.

That's 60CFM's coming in through the front (which is all mesh in my black CoolerMaster case), and about 75CFM's leaving through the back... it doesn't have as few fan's as BTX was desinged to run with, but they're all moving in the same direction. If anything, I'm going for lower temperatures at the same noise level. A 1016g heatsink with 57 aluminum fins will sure as hell get me there.

First, air movement on this level is a zero sum game. What goes out much come in first; it's impossible to have more blown out than sucked in. Second, HSF weight does not correlate to performance. I've seen absolutely massive units decimated by near-stock solutions. Third (referencing previous paragraph), the ATX specification assumes a vertical (tower) case. BTX assumes a horizontal (desktop) orientation. Depending on mounting method; installed height; mass distribution; and case movement & handling, it is quite possible to install HSF units approaching 1kg mass onto an ATX tower, and you're limited solely by space when using a desktop case.

And about the GMA950, like I said, it won't play any new games. But you can say that its the best integrated graphics out there right now with a straight face.

nVIDIA has three IGP desktop solutions, all derived from NV4x. I'm not sure what they're using right now, but ATI also has X700 IGP solutions in the pipe, and their currently-existing Xpress200 IGP boards do a fair sight better than Intel's 945G offerings.




carl4286

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#13 13 years ago

Crap... well, let me pose a new question. If they're the same price, and I'm using the exact same case (but obviously the ATX version vs the BTX version), would I be better off ATX or BTX? Here's the case I had picked out. Remember, the heatsinks, cases, and motherboards are all the same cost either way.




Guest

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#14 13 years ago

Well you said in your first post that you want your PC to be 'future proof' (not in those exact words) and then in a previous post you quoted a fact that said by 2006 50% of PC's will use BTX so work it out yourself.

Also dont argue with C(insert numbers here) as he will own you everytime.




carl4286

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#15 13 years ago

I realize that, which is why I have deferred to his experience. Now I just want his opinion in which is better assuming their the same price, and assuming I am using a full-height microBTX case (since he said he hadn't seen one before).




Hmmmdonut

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#16 13 years ago
carl4286Crap... well, let me pose a new question. If they're the same price, and I'm using the exact same case (but obviously the ATX version vs the BTX version), would I be better off ATX or BTX? Here's the case I had picked out. Remember, the heatsinks, cases, and motherboards are all the same cost either way.

There is no reason to BTX. None. Dell is the only OEM even using BTX. There is almost no support at all for the form factor.

If you want a quiet, and fast media center PC then pick up a PM desktop.

There was really no reason to sell your current computer. You could have sold the 6800GT, and picked up a X2, and some el cheapo 6600.




carl4286

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#17 13 years ago
HmmmdonutDell is the only OEM even using BTX.

...and Gateway, and HP, and Shuttle...

There is almost no support at all for the form factor

What support are you speaking of? It uses the same power supply's, the same socket, the same RAM, the same expansion slots... the only thing's that are currently hard to find are heatsinks and cases, and those will come in time. Coolermaster, Thermaltake, and Intel already have there own BTX heatsinks (aswell as some other smaller manufacturers), and Coolermaster alone has 4 BTX cases.

But I don't want to argue about ATX and BTX form factors... I just want do know from someone with some experience, if BTX really is worse. If it's the same price, why not get it?

Edit: just found this on anandtech.com

With only the CPU's HSF and the power supply's single 80mm fan, the uBTX system performs at temperatures lower than an uATX system with three case fans and a dedicated CPU HSF

Page here

Unless you all really think BTX is a terrible idea for the same price, I think I'm going to go with it.




C38368

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#18 13 years ago
carl4286Crap... well, let me pose a new question. If they're the same price, and I'm using the exact same case (but obviously the ATX version vs the BTX version), would I be better off ATX or BTX? Here's the case I had picked out. Remember, the heatsinks, cases, and motherboards are all the same cost either way.

You'd be better off not trashing what you have now.

I'm not trying to dissuade you away from BTX (functionally, only the motherboard and case differ), but rather point out that you aren't really gaining anything by switching to an Intel platform just to get BTX. Also, bear in mind that Intel is currently just about the only source of BTX retail BTX motherboards. Not even ASUS or MSI have gotten on the bandwagon yet.

If you are dead set on switching platforms, then what the hell, go BTX. Just don't expect to overclock it, don't expect stellar temps (allow me to reiterate: Intel will be lucky if it's first 65nm chips can being TDP down into AMD's range; they certainly don't stand a chance to beating it without a new core), and don't hold your breath for widespread industry support ever happening. BTX is shaping up like one of those niche markets that'll struggle along for a few years and then quietly fade away.




carl4286

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#19 13 years ago

Thanks for clarifying. I understand you're posistion, and you've somewhat changed mine. At this point, if anything, I'm only building a BTX system to see what they're like. I'll probably get a new system before BTX fades away (which wouldn't completely surprise me), seeing as this one only lasted me 8 months. I'll probably upgrade to Intel's 65nm chips middle of next year, try that out for awhile, and in the end I'll move back to AMD once they've had some time to sort out their new products. Like I said, it's mostly for the experience.

I'll let you know how BTX works out with a little review, if anyone's interested.




Hmmmdonut

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#20 13 years ago

I mean I just see no point of going Intel at this moment.

Meh.....Intel's new chips based off the PM probably will not be compatiable with the chipset you buy. If they aren't the only 65nm chips you will be able to buy are just 65nm P4's. Just buy a 820.

Also I thought that shuttle used m-itx form factor?