5 Reasons to Suspect Jesus Never Existed 12 replies

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Primarch Vulkan VIP Member

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16th March 2004

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#1 4 years ago

If anyone is a "hardcore christian" just a warning this article could very well offend you. 5 Reasons to Suspect Jesus Never Existed | Alternet


[color=#000000][size=2][b][i]Heralds of the coming doom, Like the cry of the Raven, we are drawn, This oath of war and vengeance, On a blade of exalted iron sworn, With blood anointed swords



Andron Taps Forum Mod

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#2 4 years ago

I think they all fled these forums long ago :p


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Biiviz

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#3 4 years ago

The whole "came back to life"-thing is also kind of a giveaway.




Kilobyte

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#4 4 years ago
Biiviz;5743382The whole "came back to life"-thing is also kind of a giveaway.

A dead giveaway?

I wonder why fundies get so offended by such articles. No doubt it is a sign of severe insecurity (defensivity = insecurity). You would think that a person secure in their beliefs would find such articles humorous.




AlDaja

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#5 4 years ago

Kilobyte;5743387A dead giveaway?

I wonder why fundies get so offended by such articles. No doubt it is a sign of severe insecurity (defensivity = insecurity). You would think that a person secure in their beliefs would find such articles humorous.

You would think, but honestly, most beliefs are I think suspect even to the person who professes to be a believer - that little voice somewhere in your head that whispers, "you know this is bullsh't, right?". No one likes their position challenged, especially if you expose a loop-hole or inconsistency. Atrocities by religious and political devotees have demonstrated as much the world over when belief is threatened.




Mr. Matt VIP Member

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#6 4 years ago

I don't see what's 'bullshit' about eating the flesh of a 2,000 year old Jewish zombie (himself the son of a sky wizard, but also the same person as the sky wizard, but he's not really the same, but he is) and telepathically surrendering your soul to him so that he can drive the evil spirits from your body and grant you eternal life in the clouds.

Y'all just close-minded.




Rikupsoni

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#7 4 years ago

Someone who started the religious movement, like Jesus, did exist. Although it is true that there are almost no mentions of anyone like him in contemporary texts: back then plenty of historians existed so it's obscure because they didn't detail it and indeed a possibility he didn't exist.

In any case the historicity of a religious figure has little to do with the religious interpretations and authenticity of the "miracles". Rasputin did exist for certain, yet he didn't do the miracles.




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#8 4 years ago

Rikupsoni;5743515Someone who started the religious movement, like Jesus, did exist. Although it is true that there are almost no mentions of anyone like him in contemporary texts: back then plenty of historians existed so it's obscure because they didn't detail it and indeed a possibility he didn't exist.

In any case the historicity of a religious figure has little to do with the religious interpretations and authenticity of the "miracles". Rasputin did exist for certain, yet he didn't do the miracles.

It's important to note that within his lifetime Jesus wasn't exactly a terribly unique person. Would-be demigods and messiahs weren't exactly rare and more than one of them died on the crucifix. Even without that there were many other extreme individuals to keep track of and the world was as always a busy place. It's easy to imagine a lower class jew, one among a decent sized family and one among many working supposed miracles, not being considered worthy of mention. Not in a world where the other notable jewish figures were mired in assassinations and uprisings and a million other supposed sons of gods or chosen ones.

Particularly when you remember that particularly initially, Christianity wasn't exactly a super easy to nail down thing and there wasn't much established stuff for onlookers to look on at. Early christians tended to meet behind closed doors and in places that didn't attract nearly so much attention as a big gothic cathedral.

That's not to say I believe either way, but it's just to keep in mind: One face in the crowd, executed like thousands of other common criminals, claiming the same things as many others, isn't really noteworthy at the time to any save for occasional bookkeeping that could easily have been lost a hundred times over since, and even that would probably have been in the ledgers as a single footnote if even that in an era before the printing press and bulk paper being easy to come by.




Granyaski VIP Member

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#9 4 years ago
Jayngfet;5752245 It's easy to imagine a lower class jew, one among a decent sized family and one among many working supposed miracles, not being considered worthy of mention. Not in a world where the other notable jewish figures were mired in assassinations and uprisings and a million other supposed sons of gods or chosen ones.

I was going to say a similar thing. I may class myself as an atheist however I do believe Jesus actually existed, just not in the miracles and so on.

The article is interesting although it's the section about no historical documents that gets me. He was a common man living in the middle east; no philosopher in Greece or Rome is going to have heard of him or write about him. Even when his popularity grew I don't think it concerned that many people who lived elsewhere; thats assuming they've even heard the rumours and stories.

In a way you could argue that Jesus' disciples were the historians to write about it however they are clearly biased....or are they?




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#10 4 years ago

Granyaski;5752987I was going to say a similar thing. I may class myself as an atheist however I do believe Jesus actually existed, just not in the miracles and so on.

The article is interesting although it's the section about no historical documents that gets me. He was a common man living in the middle east; no philosopher in Greece or Rome is going to have heard of him or write about him. Even when his popularity grew I don't think it concerned that many people who lived elsewhere; thats assuming they've even heard the rumours and stories.

In a way you could argue that Jesus' disciples were the historians to write about it however they are clearly biased....or are they?

Objective reporting in that sense wouldn't even be a thing for milennia. One of a historians most frequent jobs tends to be teasing out what actually happened from accounts mired in personal bias at best, and covered in impossible beliefs at worst. Between that and so many figures sharing the same name it's often something of a headache to tease out a consistent chain of events.




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