The images, and the fact that they weren't released, aren't entirely shocking to anyone that understands how the US government operates when it comes to such issues (which is most people here).
What disappoints me more is some of the comments:
"or if u hate america so much, then take ur hypocritical asses to iraq and since u dont want to back up the troops, then fuckin stand in front of them since u like nthe freedoms tghey give u so mch to talk shit about them. i dare u to say half this shit to a marine's face and plz do so u can get ur fuckin ass beat and put that shit on youtubeand complain about that, thas what i thot u cowards whether they were tortured or just flat out fragged by us, becuz if u dumbasses would open your eyes and see 9-11, or wha they did to nick berg and other americans and civilians of their own u wpould shut the fuck up. this is such bull shit its rediculous and neone that could possible believe this beurocratic propoganda is as ignorant as the bitch making this story. these photos dont tell what happened when they were taken, where they were taken, and even if the americans tortured neone. and personally as a marine myself, i dont give a fuck neway about the fuckin cowardly terrorists in the photos, ...."
I can't wait until people like this don't exist anymore.
In any case, good story. The soldiers and guards there involved in these atrocities all deserve life in prison, at the very least.
Young_Pioneer;4185577This is a movie from the ACLU showing Abu Ghraib scenes which are not officially shown on TV in the US. Don't watch this movie if you are American because these scenes are unpleasant and censored by your government!
Gee wiz mate, I think you're a few years behind here.
The people responsible for the shit that happened there were held accountable. Dumbass guardsmen being dumbass guardsmen. They are an exception, not the rule.
EO ViolationThe people responsible for the shit that happened there were held accountable.
You must be using the phrase "held accountable" loosely. A slap on the wrist is what the guards got, barely justice, and a million miles from what they really deserved.
And in any case, the "dumbass guardsmen" are hardly the only ones responsible. A lot of evidence has come to light, including testimonies from military men and women that worked there, that suggests those tortuous policies came from much higher up.
In any case, it is ultimately the US administration that is responsible. They sent in a pseudo-colonial force to pacify the population, and this practice is just one part of pacifying a population. Remember, Abu Ghraib is just the tip of the iceberg. Many "secret prisons" exist in Egypt, Poland, etc, what have you, all over the world. The things that go on in them can't be pretty, else we'd know much more about them.
Really, I thought it would be the fucked up guardsmen, I have no idea what's going on, this is a loose assumption based on what I've seen.
And who the fuck doesn't have secret prisons?
Locomotor;4186197 In any case, it is ultimately the US administration that is responsible. They sent in a pseudo-colonial force to pacify the population, and this practice is just one part of pacifying a population. Remember, Abu Ghraib is just the tip of the iceberg. Many "secret prisons" exist in Egypt, Poland, etc, what have you, all over the world. The things that go on in them can't be pretty, else we'd know much more about them.
No, they sent the United States Army and Marine Corps, the two finest assault forces in the world. We were not trained to be an occupation force, to deal with situations like these. Hell, I know the people involved (Army National Guard) probably signed up expecting to just do training and sandbag rivers. Not go to war. Soldiers get bored, and bored soldiers do stupid shit.
But that doesn't matter. What does matter is that we are at war. Regardless of what Washington politicians do, there are rather nasty, and smelly, men out there who would love to see our heads on the end of a stick. You can not win a war by playing nice and holding hands, especially when the only hands your enemy will hold belong to the dismembered bodies of your friends and allies. Dirty shit happens, that is how wars are fought and that is how wars are won. It's a crying shame, yes, but that's the way it always has been and always will be.
In short, you can't win a war by being squeaky clean.
EO ViolationWe were not trained to be an occupation force, to deal with situations like these.
That's my point, partially. Well, that's one reason why things got fucked up so badly. The politicians wanted a colonial style occupation, and the military it seems wasn't informed.
there are rather nasty, and smelly, men out there who would love to see our heads on the end of a stick.
How convenient! Somebody wants me dead? Oh, dear...
"Don't go into the woods Little Red Riding Hood, you might meet a terrorist! They're everywhere..." - Jello Biafra, 1984
Remember: the modern conception (what the current administration operates on today) of the threat of terrorism was conjured up back in the 80s by Reagan, with his War On Terrorism. Real threats of this nature barely exist anymore, civilization has gotten a bit more sophisticated by now. It is the superpowers of the world - primarily today the US - that causes and perpetuates the majority of violence and terrorism, not some jerks living in caves halfway around the world. Our government has killed a whole lot more people than they could dream of, you know.
In short, you can't win a war by being squeaky clean.
What does winning a war mean? Especially this war? Killing more bad guys than the other team? Is it capture the flag? Maybe we should lose the war.
Open your eyes: it isn't, and oughtn't be about "winning" anymore, this is the 21st century. Grown ups know how to get along, it's a few in power that would rather not.
Does anyone know what these alquida guys would do to our captured troops if the tables were turned? Well if you click that link below you may find out how our troops would be treated, you people need to wake up. If all of you would go read this you may learn what is what, read the whole thing too. What Americans are not told Michael Yon : Online Magazine » Blog Archive » Bless the Beasts and Children Go through all his "dispatches" and people will start to see how bad "bad" is.
Horrible things. Nobody can deny that.
And I think we can all agree that the act of torture is wrong, whether it comes from some crazy Al Qaeda terrorist or whether it comes from some CIA agent. The presumption that 'if given the chance they would torture one of our guys' does nothing to justify us torturing anyone.
MORE? Michael Yon : Online Magazine » Blog Archive » Drilling for Justice "Al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) had tarnished its name here by publicly attacking and murdering children, videotaping beheadings, all while imposing harsh punishments on Iraqi civilians found guilty of violating morality laws prohibiting activities like smoking. The AQI installed Sharia court had sanctioned the amputation of the two “smoking fingers” for those who violated anti-smoking laws. In part because local sentiment was shifting against it, AQI synthesized with other groups and undertook an image makeover, christening itself “The Islamic State of Iraq.” But the new name was just lipstick on a pig here. Other AQI edicts included beatings for men who refused to grow beards, and corporal punishments for obscene sexual suggestiveness, defined by such “loose” behavior as carrying tomatoes and cucumbers in the same bag."