Baby 'starved to death' because he did not say Amen 69 replies

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#61 9 years ago

Religion is a bit more complex then your KKK example, however. When a person says they are Christian the absolute only thing you can assume is that they believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God and savior. That is all. That's all it takes to be a Christian by definition.

Really dropping yourself into a particular religious group is a matter of convenience. I know my dad would probably list himself as "Catholic" but that's largely because he wouldn't outline every little belief he has if asked. "Other" would be the appropriate categorey on a poll, but people don't like to be that ambiguous.

Imagine you're part of a coalition of businesses, and you find out that many of the businesses within this coalition are secretly selling synthetic drugs (not the good natural ones), or are prostituting children, or even manufacture dildos or whatever. Would you remain in the coalition or leave it?

This depends entirely on the situation. What percentage of businesses are engaging in these activities? What other activities are the businesses involved in? Are other businesses also angry with these less wholesome business activities? I'd think more than likely people would want to punish those businesses that are doing wrong rather than leaving themselves, just as many Catholics would like to see those priests that have molested children punished by both the State and Church.

Also remember that correlation does not equal causation. The causal relationship between religiosity and crime could be reverse from what you assume, that increased crime leads to increased religiosity. Consider the fact that poverty is the leading cause of crime. Also consider that the impoverished have a tendency to look to religion for comfort. It's not surprising given those two concepts that there would be a correlation between religiosity and crime. You'd probably find a similar correlation between a disaster prone area and religiosity.




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#62 9 years ago
The Body Popper;5268088The Dark Ages weren't brought about by Christianity or any religion, for that matter. The fall of the Roman Empire left a large portion of Europe shattered and broken. With no central power, what was left of the empire quickly descended into chaos and near anarchy with villages becoming isolated. The Black Death didn't help the situation either. The reason there was such a huge focus on Christianity was simply because people needed something to turn to in order to give them hope and a reason to work through their incredibly difficult lives.

Religion denouncing science as heresy against the church had something to do with that as well.

Remember back then anything unexplained was gods doing. Trying to figure it out was seen as you trying to play god.


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#63 9 years ago

n0e;5278289Religion denouncing science as heresy against the church had something to do with that as well.

Remember back then anything unexplained was gods doing. Trying to figure it out was seen as you trying to play god.

That just isn't true at all. For one thing, the whole concept of a "Dark Age" is largely dropped by modern historians. People knew the Earth was round, life was not back breaking and horrible, people didn't smell, and disease was no more rampant then at any other time (the Black Death came about later) Secondly, the Church was really what held people together at a large scale with the fall of the Roman Empire, and scientific progress really didn't stagnate like some seem to think.

If you want to get the Catholic Church in this period on anything it would be the Inquisition and poor treatment of the Jews in particular. (though everyone pretty much hated them.)




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#64 9 years ago

In a certain sense scientific progress did stagnate because of religion, it just wasn't something unique to the Catholic Church. Religion served to not exactly unify but certainly to manage the tensions between various major factions - it helped people to live together.




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#65 9 years ago
Nemmerle;5278338In a certain sense scientific progress did stagnate because of religion, it just wasn't something unique to the Catholic Church. Religion served to not exactly unify but certainly to manage the tensions between various major factions - it helped people to live together.

Like? I find more cases religion doing the exact opposite, in America Atheists vs. Christians (well they are the most untrusted people in America) , in Europe Christians vs. Muslims, in Africa indigenous religions vs. Muslims, Hindu's vs. Buddhists vs. Muslims in South Asia, Jews vs. Muslims etc. Even if they did share the same religion it didn't make much of a difference, as Europe showed.




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#66 9 years ago
Warforger;5278596Like?

You answered your own question.

... in America Atheists vs. Christians [SIZE="1"](well they are the most untrusted people in America)[/SIZE] , in Europe Christians vs. Muslims, in Africa indigenous religions vs. Muslims, Hindu's vs. Buddhists vs. Muslims in South Asia, Jews vs. Muslims etc. Even if they did share the same religion it didn't make much of a difference, as Europe showed.

Being able to unite under a common banner, whether that is a government's, a cross, a star, or a moon, is just that, uniting. Sure, it doesn't always work, but the Muslim expansion that reached from Spain to Persia is certainly an example of religion uniting folks. The Crusades were mainly Christians vs. Muslims, not French vs. English vs. Germans vs. Egyptians vs. Levantines vs. Turks vs. Cypriots.




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#67 9 years ago
Warforger;5278596Like? I find more cases religion doing the exact opposite, in America Atheists vs. Christians (well they are the most untrusted people in America) , in Europe Christians vs. Muslims, in Africa indigenous religions vs. Muslims, Hindu's vs. Buddhists vs. Muslims in South Asia, Jews vs. Muslims etc. Even if they did share the same religion it didn't make much of a difference, as Europe showed.

The divine right of kings in much of feudal Europe, the Umayyad Caliphate in much of what is now the Middle East, Spain and Africa, (the 5th largest continuous land Empire ever,) certain parts of late Christendom under the pre-renaissance papacy, old Chinese religions that stressed harmony and national unity.

Did they ensure peace? God no. In many cases they obliged people to go to war. But that's not the point. They managed tension - a war here, some charity there, a genocide or forced conversion here - smooths things out among people, helps them live together in large blocks; nations, empires, religious communities; composed of several major factions.

While it's arguable that environmental necessity dictated that some factions would be more or less dominant than others you still have to find a way to sell that necessity to people wrapped up in the form of values that stop them from trying to kill each other. Religions were the unifying ideological forces behind the superpowers of their day.

The problem is you risk robbing people of incentive. Make the religion too large or too cohesive; Caliphate, feudal China, etc; and you eliminate a lot of the motivation to advance, make the religion too small or too diverse and you don't have the necessary infrastructure to advance anyway.




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#68 9 years ago
computernerd;5277999What difference would it make if they were?

Allah is messed up, Nuff' said




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#69 9 years ago
Afterburner;5278176 Also remember that correlation does not equal causation. The causal relationship between religiosity and crime could be reverse from what you assume, that increased crime leads to increased religiosity. Consider the fact that poverty is the leading cause of crime. Also consider that the impoverished have a tendency to look to religion for comfort. It's not surprising given those two concepts that there would be a correlation between religiosity and crime. You'd probably find a similar correlation between a disaster prone area and religiosity.

Repeating that slogan implies paralysis. In the end, a whole bunch of stuff is just correlation, and yet causation is widely accepted. Correlation doesn't imply causation, but it does suggest causation or common factors as a possibility, and can help confirm a theory of causation. Works against a theory of independence, tilt the likelihood ratio from one hypothesis to the other etc etc... The phrasing 'correlation does not imply causation' is very often abused.

Really, it would be better to expand it into the subject of statistical inference.

Though on a final note, correlation may not equal causation, correlation can imply causation and is a very important factor in all scientific studies. If not to determine causation, but to rule it out.




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#70 9 years ago
monkey fbi;5280065Allah is messed up, Nuff' said

I'm not even sure what to say about that aside from the fact it makes you look completely like an idiot.

The mother was part of a cult called the "One Mind Ministries", a whacked up organization needless to say. According to this article,

Mom's plea deal includes 'resurrection clause' - CNN.com

Court documents say Ramkissoon joined One Mind Ministries after Javon's birth in 2005. Silverman described her as a petite, soft-spoken woman who rejected her family's Hindu religion, became a devout Christian and wanted to raise her son in that religion. "She didn't want to have to work or go to school. She just wanted to take care of her son, and they offered her all this," he said.

The group insisted she wear a uniform the colors of royalty: white, tan and blue; give up her cell phone; stop referring to her family members by name; and not leave her home on her own, among other things, he said. "They really isolated her, brainwashed her, and you see what happened."