Battle of the Bureaucrats 38 replies

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Huffardo

Arrrr!

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29th November 2003

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#11 14 years ago

Companies are run by greed, governments want power, but the difference is that the government has to please the people to gain power, whilst the companies can do what they want as long as they make money.

Actually governments should be made up of wonderful people who wants to serve us and do the best decisions possible, but they aren't because the voters can't always know which of them are honest and worth of voting on. And many voters don't even want that kind of people in power, they favour the Bush&co kind.

I prefer government over corporations, but if the government already is bad the corporations of course can be the better alternative in some rare cases where the corporation management actually cares about the people.

Machiavelli's ApprenticeAll shareholders, even ones with small holdings, have some control over who is in charge.

And what about those who have no shares? Besides, those with only small holdings have no chance to control who is in charge if the bigger shareholders don't want them to.




Joe Bonham

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10th December 2005

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#12 14 years ago
This is funny! So corporations are villains and the government is made up of wonderful people who's only goal in life is to serve us?

I'm sorry. That was rude.

HuffardoCompanies are run by greed, governments want power, but the difference is that the government has to please the people to gain power, whilst the companies can do what they want as long as they make money.

I disagree. Corporations have to take care of their employees and their customers. If they piss everyone off, the customers and the skilled employees will go to the company's competitors. But no one can compete with the government, so they can be as incompetent as they want. Even if a completely new congress is elected, its extremely unlikely they are going to replace the existing bureaucracy.

Actually governments should be made up of wonderful people who wants to serve us and do the best decisions possible, but they aren't because the voters can't always know which of them are honest and worth of voting on. And many voters don't even want that kind of people in power, they favour the Bush&co kind.

So people who voted for Bush "don't want wonderful people" in power? You should read Plato's Republic, if you haven't already. It discusses this problem quite well.

I prefer government over corporations, but if the government already is bad the corporations of course can be the better alternative in some rare cases where the corporation management actually cares about the people.

But the government rarely cares about the people either. Like a corporation, the government simply builds the image of caring for the people.

And what about those who have no shares? Besides, those with only small holdings have no chance to control who is in charge if the bigger shareholders don't want them to.

All citizens have at least some control over who is put in charge of the government But what if they're not citizens? Besides, normal voters have no chance to control who is in charge if the big party backers don't want them to.




Dreadnought[DK] Advanced Member

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7th March 2003

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#13 14 years ago
Machiavelli's Apprentice-Corporate leaders are answerable to the public (The shareholders)

in their capacity as owners of shares in the company, the shareholders don't fall under category 'the public'. they are a special interest group with interests (obviously...) in the financial well-being of the company.




Joe Bonham

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10th December 2005

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#14 14 years ago
'Dreadnought[DK']in their capacity as owners of shares in the company, the shareholders don't fall under category 'the public'. they are a special interest group with interests (obviously...) in the financial well-being of the company.

I could say the same for voters. Illegal immigrants can't vote in most places. So that means the voters are one big special interest group. But since when was that a bad thing?




Admiral Donutz Advanced Member

Wanna go Double Dutch?

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9th December 2003

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#15 14 years ago

Voters aren't loyal to one single goverment in office or party Voters have a special intrest in the social and financial wellbeing of the whole country.

Shareholders however are only intrested in the financial well being and often to a limit number of compagnies rather then the intire industry (=country).

That bein said you can't compare illegal activity (illegal immigrants voting) to legal activities (shareholders who legally obtained the riht to influence the company). Now if we where to compare illegal voters to illegal shareholders...




Joe Bonham

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#16 14 years ago
Großadmiral DönitzVoters aren't loyal to one single goverment in office or party Voters have a special intrest in the social and financial wellbeing of the whole country. Shareholders however are only intrested in the financial well being and often to a limit number of compagnies rather then the intire industry (=country). That bein said you can't compare illegal activity (illegal immigrants voting) to legal activities (shareholders who legally obtained the riht to influence the company). Now if we where to compare illegal voters to illegal shareholders...

You're missing the point. Like a citizen of a country, a shareholder could be considered a "citizen" of that company. He has a say in who and how that company is going to be run. I personally think big government is the first step to a totalitarian system. So while there are a few laws concering economic activity, the gov. shouldn't be directly involved in it by taking control of an industry. Most governments have proved to be incompetent at performing even the simplest tasks in running a business anyway. Just look at the American education system, the British railroads, or China's nuke power program. Of course, overly powerful corporations are equally bad. So just set up some anti-monopoly system. In this case, the middle road is the best one.




Dreadnought[DK] Advanced Member

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#17 14 years ago
Machiavelli's ApprenticeI personally think big government is the first step to a totalitarian system.

you have to admit that a totalitarian system has it's advantages.

Of course, overly powerful corporations are equally bad. So just set up some anti-monopoly system.

that's government interference if ever.




Joe Bonham

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#18 14 years ago
'Dreadnought[DK']you have to admit that a totalitarian system has it's advantages.

If you don't mind being a brainwashed slave, yes.

that's government interference if ever.

It's not incompatible with a small government. Gibbons vs. Ogden, the first anti-monopoly ruling by the American Supreme Court, was passed in 1824.




Dreadnought[DK] Advanced Member

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#19 14 years ago
Machiavelli's ApprenticeIf you don't mind being a brainwashed slave, yes.

and that's one of the disadvantages.




GreatGrizzly

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23rd February 2005

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#20 14 years ago

I would rather put power in the government, because if there is something I dont like (in theory), I can change it. If I put power in the Business, I cant change anything, unless I buy a majority of their stock (That requires A LOT of money, something most people dont have) And even than, I cant call the shots. Example: I have to pay hundreds of dollars for an OS that is buggy, insecure, and bulky POS. You know why? because it is the most commonly used OS on earth (a monopoly), my job requires me to learn it because of the first point, and all my software only works on it.