Beginnings of the Universe 142 replies

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Showd0wN

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#1 6 years ago

Random wanderings of the internet turned up this poll that (while non-representative) attempted to summarise opinions on the beginnings of the universe by location.

I thought given the recent slew of atheism / theism threads, people may be interested in this :)




Mr. Matt VIP Member

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#2 6 years ago

If man created God, does that mean that man indirectly created the universe?

Man - accomplishing shit since before we existed.




Flash525

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#3 6 years ago
USA-WTF The land of fairies, elves and unicorm lol.

If any country was going to have a higher percentage for believing in God than not, it would have to be the USA; which it is.

I am curious why so many middle-eastern countries were excluded from this poll though, surely their God is based around the same starting factor. I haven't read it, but does the Quran not state that Allah created the Universe too?




Totes

Misanthrope

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#4 6 years ago
does that mean people from united states are the dumbest?
Unfortunately yes, but the dumb people are all in the Midwest.
I'm enjoying seeing the world is ceasing to be stupid, and believing in the big bang and not an imaginary being created to control population masses, to not revolt against the government.

Believing in God and being intelligent are not interrelated. Just thought I'd point that out.




Showd0wN

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#5 6 years ago

I'm not sure that anyone was "left out" it's a poll-based website that (I think) guesses your location by IP-block. So it just means that very few people from those countries have cast a vote.




Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#6 6 years ago
Totes;5602837Believing in God and being intelligent are not interrelated. Just thought I'd point that out.

... Do you have any evidence to that effect? A brief overview of variances between the rate of belief in people who go into careers in the sciences and rates of belief in the general population seems to imply the opposite. So assuming you think... physicists, for instance... are more intelligent, or at least more likely to know what they're talking about....




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Misanthrope

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#7 6 years ago

I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. You can be intelligent and believe in God, just as easily as you can be intelligent and not believe in God. Belief in God should not be a marker of any kind for mental capability of any individual.

How one chooses to act on the belief in God however, is an entirely different discussion. WBC, for instance.

Nemmerle;5602868So assuming you think... physicists, for instance... are more intelligent, or at least more likely to know what they're talking about....

... so just because they have a higher IQ, and they don't believe in God...this means they're automatically right? That they "know what they're talking about"? That's kind of what it sounds like you're saying.




MrFancypants Forum Admin

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#8 6 years ago
Totes;5602877 Belief in God should not be a marker of any kind for mental capability of any individual.

Why not?

Just because they have a higher IQ, and they don't believe in God...this means they're automatically right? That they "know what they're talking about"? That's kind of what it sounds like you're saying.

That's a strawman. All studies like that say is that people who are intelligent are less likely to believe in a personified God or one of the big religions. That does not mean that there are no intelligent people who beleive in a religion. Neither does it imply that a more intelligent person is necessarily right all the time.




Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#9 6 years ago

Totes;5602877I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. You can be intelligent and believe in God, just as easily as you can be intelligent and not believe in God. Belief in God should not be a marker of any kind for mental capability of any individual.[/QUOTE]

It's not a question of whether it's logically possible to believe in god and also be intelligent - not all relationships, at least given our imperfect knowledge, appear as perfectly deterministic in nature - it's just a question of fact. If it is the case that smart people tend not to believe in god, then a belief in god is evidence that the person you're talking to is less likely to be smart.

It's like the occurrence of red-shirts among security personnel in Star Trek: Sometimes a red shirt survives a mission. It's not always the case that the guy in some other color uniform is the one to live, and the red-shirt the one to die. Nonetheless that is the way to bet.

I suppose, strictly speaking, in societies where most people don't believe in God, a disbelief in god isn't evidence either way. Presumably, if you could go back in time far enough for a disbelief in god to be rarer, it would serve as much stronger evidence.

Totes;5602877How one chooses to act on the belief in God however, is an entirely different discussion. WBC, for instance.[/QUOTE]

It's not an entirely different discussion. As much as it is a function of processing power and memorisation, intelligence is a function of effort; time invested in learning how to analyse things and practice in applying those methods to solve problems.

A gifted person has to work less hard to get results. But even a normal person can eventually catch up, if the gifted person chooses not to spend their time learning and investigating.

If the religious person chooses not to pursue activities where they're required to solve those sorts of problems - then frankly I wouldn't expect them to be any good at it when they have to.

Intelligence is not something wholly innate, it's earned. I suspect people would like to believe it's innate - then stupidity can excuse a failure to make anything of themselves, and being praised for intelligence in childhood can be carried with them as an ego-boost no matter whether they ever go on to develop it.

If I recall correctly, there's a weird schism between Western/Eastern societies in that sense. Western societies tend to praise people more for results, while Eastern societies tend to praise people more for effort. Psychological research tends to show that the latter yields far superior results anyway, which rather makes you wonder how we started going wrong.

But I digress. What you do with your beliefs says something about you, and about what you go on to become.

[QUOTE=Totes;5602877]When I read this, the first thing I thought of was the moderator guidelines. Essentially they say that being a moderator does not give one the right to imply that one's opinion matters more because of it. So is not the same true of these...more intelligent, men?

No, it's not.

The problem with rhetorical questions is they can be answered in ways that don't support your argument. In this case I don't see how the first instance [mod guidelines] is analogous, or causally related to the second [intelligence correlating with some belief or other].

[QUOTE=Totes;5602877]Just because they have a higher IQ, and they don't believe in God...this means they're automatically right? That they "know what they're talking about"? That's kind of what it sounds like you're saying.

I was simply saying that, on a brief examination it seem likely that belief in god and intelligence are related.

Assuming that I take the next step though. That I say that intelligence correlates with more accurate beliefs... the logic still seems like it should be pretty valid.

  • Assuming roughly equal knowledge, more intelligent people are more likely to have correct opinions.
  • Correct opinions are more valuable than incorrect ones.
  • You should bet in such a way as to maximise your expected value.

Assuming you buy into that:

If you lack any deeper understanding of the issues than you've reason to suspect the intelligent people have, the way to lay your beliefs, (at least in the short term before you gather any more evidence or work to become smarter yourself,) so as to maximise your chance of believing correctly, and thus of having a belief with higher value, is to go along with the most intelligent people you can identify.




Emperor Benedictine

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#10 6 years ago
Outcast?;5602817If any country was going to have a higher percentage for believing in God than not, it would have to be the USA; which it is. I am curious why so many middle-eastern countries were excluded from this poll though, surely their God is based around the same starting factor. I haven't read it, but does the Quran not state that Allah created the Universe too?

Did you click the "show more countries" link on the page? ;) Going by the numbers, if any countries are missing it's probably because no one from that country has yet cast a vote.