Can we call them terrorists yet? 40 replies

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Locomotor

in spite of erosion

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13th May 2004

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#11 13 years ago
MADo you think I chose this screen name for kicks?

I don't like Machiavelli. His writing was the inspiration for some of the worst atrocities mankind has ever faced. His philosophy is appalling, in my opinion. (BTW, have you read Thomas More?)

We have no experience of the harder side of life.

Speak for yourself.

A source of disorder - i.e., the Marxist guerrillas.

Are you suggesting that Colombia could have posed a threat? Either way, it was their "disorder," and the populist movements against the fascist state were entirely legitimate. Leftist =/= disorder, you know.

When a group of men with guns visits you, don't give them shit - smile and nod, and hope they don't decide to blow your brains out.

I don't understand what you're trying to argue here: people were killed for speaking out against US corporate tyranny and right-wing fascism in the state: you're trying to argue that what these death squads did (do) was appropriate?

I acknowledge it as a fact of life.

This is not an argument. These things don't just "happen," and they aren't spontaneous results of suppressed "human nature." These death squads were created and backed because people were standing up for themselves, against our systematic tyranny. Acknowledge this or not, that's the way it was. Saying "that's the way things happen" is complete bullshit. It's not an argument, it's a copout, and your apathy towards these atrocities is simply deplorable. Grow a pair, dude.

And anyway: You've ignored not only the content of my post (you've mentioned nothing of the US business motives behind the death squads), you've ignored the point behind it. What of the question I posed at the end?




Joe Bonham

Quetron's alt account

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10th December 2005

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#12 13 years ago
Locomotor;3355311I don't like Machiavelli. His writing was the inspiration for some of the worst atrocities mankind has ever faced. His philosophy is appalling, in my opinion. (BTW, have you read Thomas More?)[/QUOTE]
Speak for yourself.
I see. So your family was killed by a group of men with a chainsaw? (I thought you were speaking rhetorically...)
Are you suggesting that Colombia could have posed a threat?
You have it backwards - disorder poses a threat to Columbia.
Either way, it was their "disorder,"
Isolationism is a legitimate viewpoint. However, if the rest of the world goes to hell, we'll get dragged down with it.
and the populist movements against the fascist state were entirely legitimate. Leftist =/= disorder, you know.
Really doesn't matter what their motive is. The state would have been destroyed, and then God himself probably couldn't have put it back together again any time soon. It is much easier to destroy a state than it is to rebuild it again.
I don't understand what you're trying to argue here: people were killed for speaking out against US corporate tyranny and right-wing fascism in the state: you're trying to argue that what these death squads did (do) was appropriate?
By Third World Standards, yes.
This is not an argument.
A strange statement. What do you mean "this isn't an argument"? These things don't just "happen,"

Very true. They are caused by a breakdown of order. Best to resort to violence and stamp it out quickly, before things collapse completely, and all hell breaks loose.

and they aren't spontaneous results of suppressed "human nature."

Incorrect. Man is a beast. That's the whole point of society - to tame him into a civilized creature.

These death squads were created and backed because people were standing up for themselves, against our systematic tyranny. Acknowledge this or not, that's the way it was.

Are you going to continue this "freedom fighter" nonsense? This isn't some popular uprising againt evil, this is a movement comprised of men with guns who desire power, and are motivated by a strong ideology. They are no different from the "Death Squads" you hate.

Saying "that's the way things happen" is complete bullshit. It's not an argument, it's a copout, and your apathy towards these atrocities is simply deplorable. Grow a pair, dude.

Are your flames adding anything to this discussion?

And anyway: You've ignored not only the content of my post (you've mentioned nothing of the US business motives behind the death squads),

Business motives indeed. Pure motives are quite rare. We like to dream about a war with purely honorable motives, like Homer's Illiad.

you've ignored the point behind it. What of the question I posed at the end?

Fair enough.

why can't we label the US a state-sponsor of terrorism for providing Anti-Leftist Death Squads with "funding, weapons, training, and sanctuary?"

Because condemning ourselves would be a very silly thing to do. As for an explanation - Al Quaeda is a source of disorder, while the Columbian death squads are a source of order. Middle Eastern terrorist organizations threaten to topple a number of weak states friendly to us, like Israel and Pakistan (And some of these countries have nukes, and we definitely don't want those falling in the wrong hands). If there was a terrorist organization that countered the Islamic organizations - The Agency would probably look into helping them (To quote Gary Brecher, the CIA would send that leader so much money he need 747s to carry it all) Is this a good thing? No. Is it the morally right thing? No. Is it the necessary thing? I believe so. Think of it this way Loco - if we can preven the place from going to hell in our generation, maybe the next generation will think of a way to end such wars. All we have to do is prevent the world from disintigrating.




Roaming East

Ultima ratio regum

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7th November 2005

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#13 13 years ago
Machiavelli's Apprentice;3355295I agree. But unfortunately, your allies in the third world aren't going to be much different from the people they're fighting. You're scum - but you're our scum. Foreign policy is not a pleasant job.

Yeah you're right. Most of them are terribly uncomfortable to work with (such as a few classmates of mine in Djibouti are learning) but i guess business is business. Should it ever come down to it, we shouldnt be afraid to put boot to ass for our...recalcitrant, allies either coughsaddamcough




GuineaPig

All my base are belong to n0e

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14th February 2004

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#14 13 years ago

It looks like MA only supports conservative uprisings. Do you think that the British should have used death squads to mass kill Americans during the Revolutionary War? After all, the rebels were sorces of disorder...




MrFancypants Forum Admin

The Bad

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7th December 2003

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#15 13 years ago
Roaming East;3355287You can be an 'insurgent' or 'freedom fighter' without blowing up schools and pizzerias and shooting up theaters and markets

In Afghanistan with US-supplied weapons perhaps, but I don't think the insurgency in Iraq would have lasted as long if they had only attacked military targets. What those terrorists are doing is of course a terrible atrocity, but for them it is the only efficient way of reaching their "higher" goals.

The US accepts loss of civilians as well to reach their goals, the only difference is that they have a technological advantage that allows them to keep collateral damage low while the insurgents are at a point where collateral damage is the only thing they can deal out.




Jill

Idiot Action-Adventure Girl

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8th July 2006

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#16 13 years ago

Okay Locomotor...you say basically from our own definitions we are terrorists just like Iran is. Well Locomotor...nothing is fair in love and war. You should realise that by now. There is no such thing as a perfect and fair world. You can call us terrorists. Gee..we are called baby killers and nazis. What is one more name? My question to you is.....what are you gonna do about it? :)




Dark Saint

How many dogs are Pb'd?Maybe 2

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30th April 2004

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#17 13 years ago
Jill;3357390 My question to you is.....what are you gonna do about it? :)

Nothing... People are going to sit behind their computer screens and speak out against the USA.

But when they are old enough, they will join the malitia , the army or whatever their countries call it, and beging a long carreer of trying to change things. And then they will realise they are in no better position than anyone else in the world.

No you can't call them a terrorist yet. We ( as a country ) do not do this to instill fear in other countries. We do not walk around looking to see the terror in peoples eyes because we can do it.

Terrorist:a person capable of committing an act of violence to induce Terror or fear. Terrorism: the act of violence that instill terror and fear in an individual or group.

The Usa has never to my knowledge just waltzed in and started killing people for the hell of it and to watch the fear pop up in the faces of people. And no , you can not mention Vietnam. None of us have first hand experiance in that ....




Roaming East

Ultima ratio regum

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#18 13 years ago

*sharpens bayonet*




Dark Saint

How many dogs are Pb'd?Maybe 2

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#19 13 years ago
Roaming East;3357480*sharpens bayonet*

see you are going to make me break out my bamboo slivers ...LOL




Rich19

Italicised no more

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14th August 2004

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#20 13 years ago

The terrorists don't just "waltz in and start killing people for the hell of it" either.