Christianity is NOT a Religion of Peace. 81 replies

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#1 7 years ago

I'm not talking, specifically, about the few recent acts of violence, I'm talking about the Bible itself.

I'll give you a few examples:

Genesis 19:8 (NIV Translation) "Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

In other words, take my daughters but don't dare have sex with men, that would be immoral. However, this could also be seen as misogynistic as well as just plain ironic.

And here's a lovely one, which I know a lot of Christians are very uncomfortable with:

Leviticus 20:13 (NAB) "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."

But why stop there? Let's just see what else this so-called holy book has to offer:

Leviticus 20:9 (NLT) "All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense."

Exodus 22:19 (NAB) "Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed."

2 Chronicles 15:12-13 (NAB) "They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."

This one is just beautiful, but it's a tad lengthy.

Spoiler: Show
Deuteronomy 13:13-19 (NLT) "Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."

Oh, and you may be saying, "Surely God himself wouldn't do these things." Well.......

2 Kings 2:23-24 (NAB) "From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces."

So apparently, God brutally kills children because they said unkind words to their elders.

1 Samuel 6:19-20 (ASV) "And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us?"

In other words, you have curiosity? Fuck that, you're dead.

Jeremiah 48:10 (NAB) "Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood." This is a direct order to kill people who violate any of God's commandments.

And you'll notice, I'm not just blowing off steam or making shit up, this is directly from the Bible. And so many Christians wonder why there are increasing numbers of Atheists.

Now I know there are those who say that the New Testament wipes out the Old Testament, but didn't Jesus say specifically, "I have come not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it?"

But that aside, isn't that just cherry-picking what you want to hear? If you're going to just pick out the verses that support your claim to righteousness then it is at that point that the Bible, in it's entirety, is no longer valid. Either that or you must admit that the Bible contradicts itself. And what are the standards for picking which verses are to be taken literally and which are to be taken metaphorically? At what point does it all just break down into a book that is made up of death and destruction, hatred, false-promises, and just down right insanity?

That's just my perspective on it. Here is what some other people have to say about it:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours" ~ Stephen Roberts

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"One of the things that is wrong with religion is that it teaches us to be satisfied with answers which are not really answers at all." ~ Richard Dawkins

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived." ~ Isaac Asimov

"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." ~ Abraham Lincoln

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” ~ Mahatma Ghandi

And for the icing on the cake:

Now please know that I don't hate religious people, and I don't think religion is always bad. But when it comes to mass-delusion, that's where I make a stand.

If there is anything that you think I may have missed or if you have any counter-arguments please share them, I would like to hear your view-points and maybe someone can offer an explanation or two about the subject I've touched on.


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



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#2 7 years ago
computernerd;5573580"One of the things that is wrong with religion is that it teaches us to be satisfied with answers which are not really answers at all." ~ Richard Dawkins

I kind of dislike Dawkins, even though I agree with him on things, whenever I hear him say something I always find it comes off the same way a religious preacher says something. It's like he says the same thing but from an atheistic view. Which pisses me off.

I hate religion and atheism equally, I don't care which one is right, they're both just preaching their view on things and trying to dismiss and disprove the other. You can't disprove god and you can't disprove evolution.

Whichever one is true doesn't matter to me, I couldn't care less. I have more things to worry about than where we came from. I just enjoy watching people tear each other's beliefs to pieces.=p




MrFancypants Forum Admin

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#3 7 years ago

For the most part the Christian religion relies on the new testament. I think the old one is kept more out of a sense of tradition and some basic moral ideas. For Jesus it made of course sense to claim that his teachings are really just an extension of what people already believed in. Mohammed used the same strategy.

Is it logical to ignore the unpleasant parts? No, not really, but logic is not something that religious people are concerned with. They are concerned with faith, i.e. believing in something without or even despite logic. In my opinion that isn't even totally bad in itself as long as people manage to abstract this concept from doctrines which can be easily abused.




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#4 7 years ago

MrFancypants;5573599For the most part the Christian religion relies on the new testament. I think the old one is kept more out of a sense of tradition and some basic moral ideas. For Jesus it made of course sense to claim that his teachings are really just an extension of what people already believed in. Mohammed used the same strategy.

Is it logical to ignore the unpleasant parts? No, not really, but logic is not something that religious people are concerned with. They are concerned with faith, i.e. believing in something without or even despite logic. In my opinion that isn't even totally bad in itself as long as people manage to abstract this concept from doctrines which can be easily abused.

Well, that's one of my points. I don't have a problem with someone who believes it as long as they don't cause trouble. Thomas Jefferson's book, "The Moral Teachings of Jesus Christ," is basically what modern-Christianity is about in a sense, but of course they still preach in the Deity of Jesus and the Holy Trinity.

It's no so much the corruption in the Bible, it's how people interpret, or as you put it, abuse it. The Bible, as well as many other religious texts, provides a powerful language that one can use to emphasize or justify their message whether it be one of violence or peace.


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#5 7 years ago

Religion is very much what you make of it. You have to remember the Bible also commands you to do things like gouge out your eyes if you see something that offends you. I take it pretty much for granted that most Christians don't do so. Which verses you pick as having primacy dictates to a high degree the shape of the theology you end up with.

Is it illogical? Fuck yes. But if religious people were big on logic there would be no Christians.

Well... kinda. It's true as far as it goes but religious people aren't necessarily less rational than the average. Rationality has never been particularly rewarding for people who don't have something they NEED to achieve. If you just want two kids and a flat screen TV it doesn't make a damn bit of difference if you develop those tools or not.

I suspect that the loss of belief has much to do with a shifting moral Zeitgeist and fewer children being exposed to it at a young age than any great surge of enlightenment. I think if fifty years ago you'd tried to protest that religion said you should put gays to death as an objection that religion was wrong, people'll'd have attacked you for sympathising with faggots rather than anything else; it just wouldn't have been considered an objection. If you said that it wasn't a religion of peace during the Crusades - or during the days of the Empire....

You have to remember that our outlook on a desirable state for the world is incredibly recent when compared to our history of raping and pillaging the world.




Commissar MercZ

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#6 7 years ago

It depends really, imo. Religion has had a role in the development of humanity in different parts of the world by providing at least a contemporary standard in legal and social affairs as well as governance, but obviously those have become no longer relevant nowadays.

As for the 'violence' part, every religion is going to have it. Most religions are on the mindset that their followers have to 'defend' their principles and bring themselves to the 'pagans'. Hell just look at the unfavorable impressions of those groups that practiced other religions or what ever by clerics both in Europe and the Middle-East.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Religion is a potent tool for those interested political affairs in a country. It helps in establishing a hegemony over a respective country and can be adapted for specific goals in a country. IMO I think much of what the 'religious right' here in the States preaches as being good, Christian behavior is antithetical with what 'Christianity' is in some ways, so much so that I think if we could pluck 'Jesus' from the past and stick him somewhere in the Bible belt, they'll call him a dirty hippy and socialist. Same goes for other faiths.




MoreGun89

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#7 7 years ago

Religion was created as a tool to control the populace. That is my primary reason for disliking it. Nerd only added a lovely decorative, bloody frosting to the cake!


Mother Banhammer



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#8 7 years ago

I thought you were Christian though, whats with the bashing of your religion?




SeinfeldisKindaOk

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#9 7 years ago

If only there was some sort of gigantic thread that already existed where we could discuss religion ad nauseum. :D




Andron Taps Forum Mod

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#10 7 years ago

Stratopwn3r;5573727I thought you were Christian though, whats with the bashing of your religion?[/QUOTE]

I guess you could say I'm now an Agnostic-Deist =p

Professor Dr. Scientist;5573748If only there was some sort of gigantic thread that already existed where we could discuss religion ad nauseum. :D[/QUOTE]

I know, but I suppose I wanted more people to actually look at it =p

[QUOTE=Nemmerle;5573619]You have to remember that our outlook on a desirable state for the world is incredibly recent when compared to our history of raping and pillaging the world.

Which is part of my point. It doesn't apply to logical, intelligent human-beings in the 21st century. We have, for the most part, learned to develop a sense of morality through our own natural empathy. A big part of the philosophy of the founding fathers was the enlightenment. A greater understanding of the world around us and not just vague superstition.

[QUOTE=Commissar MercZ;5573701]It depends really, imo. Religion has had a role in the development of humanity in different parts of the world by providing at least a contemporary standard in legal and social affairs as well as governance, but obviously those have become no longer relevant nowadays.

As for the 'violence' part, every religion is going to have it. Most religions are on the mindset that their followers have to 'defend' their principles and bring themselves to the 'pagans'. Hell just look at the unfavorable impressions of those groups that practiced other religions or what ever by clerics both in Europe and the Middle-East.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Religion is a potent tool for those interested political affairs in a country. It helps in establishing a hegemony over a respective country and can be adapted for specific goals in a country. IMO I think much of what the 'religious right' here in the States preaches as being good, Christian behavior is antithetical with what 'Christianity' is in some ways, so much so that I think if we could pluck 'Jesus' from the past and stick him somewhere in the Bible belt, they'll call him a dirty hippy and socialist. Same goes for other faiths.

And again, it's like I said, religion provides a powerful language which anyone can use to their advantage. People can justify some of the most brutal acts of violence through the religious phrases, and at the same time, you can justify a need for philanthropy based on the teachings of kindness and charity. But there are two types of people, there are those who actually do believe the texts, and then there are those who just use it as, like you said, a tool.

It's like what was mentioned in my other thread from the film, Religulous, "since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions, and limitations, and agendas."

Now, going back to mass-delusion, at least in organized religion, in a book on political ideologies, I came across this subject of study by some of the famous psychological experts, Wilfred Trotter, Sigmund Freud, Gabriel Tarde, and etc. You might find it quite interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_psychology

And I'm pretty sure that was touched on, if only a little bit, in some of the recent threads.


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.