Corporal Punishment? (yes, this again.) 24 replies

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Andron Taps Forum Mod

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#1 7 years ago

A lot of this article represents my personal viewpoints. It may or may not represent yours, but either way, if you are going to comment, please keep it civil.

10 Reasons Not to Hit Your Child | Ask Dr. Sears®


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



ItsChip

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#2 7 years ago

To be honest I think it is all up to the parent. I do not believe in this, nor did my parents and I am grateful for that. But to people who have it is just the way it is. If they feel this is the correct form of parenting I do not think someone can just say that it is wrong.

It is a form of parenting, whether the outcome is positive or negative it is more like an opinion.

We have come to a point in society where this form is truly looked down upon but still tolerated. As once in Ireland it was well known many kids have been scarred for life over this, completely banned from our education system but in the household? It is completely tolerated by many.

I for one truly disagree with this form of parenting but I would never say to one it is the wrong way.




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#3 7 years ago

computernerd;5589345A lot of this article represents my personal viewpoints. It may or may not represent yours, but either way, if you are going to comment, please keep it civil.

10 Reasons Not to Hit Your Child | Ask Dr. Sears®

I don't agree with corporal punishment, nor do I agree with everything on that list. Negative reinforcement has been known to show improvements in people, but hitting is still wrong. I'd never do it to my children, which would hopefully make them do the same.

When I took psychology, a lot of people seemed to believe hitting your children is OK if you warn them first, about what's to come, and if you do it when you're not angry. That's even worse, that's like hitting them for no reason then. At least when you're angry you have less control over your emotions and tend to do things without thinking (that's not an excuse, but it happens to everyone).

I think there are better ways to show your children not to do whatever again. My parents used to ignore me, but they wouldn't do it for a set period of time. They'd pick and choose when to ignore me, which was usually when I wanted something or needed help. They only had to do it a few times, I learned why eventually and it basically stopped me doing whatever it was I did.

Corporal punishment in schools is even worse. Why the hell would anyone want their kids to be punished in such a way by someone else? It's a punishment to the kids and the parents in my opinion. If I ever found out my kid was punished in such a way, I'd beat the shit out of the teacher. That basically goes against everything I just said, but it's my child, at that point I'm going to classify you under the 'needs to die' category. =p

tl;dr version, also kind of uncivil.

Spoiler: Show
If you need to hit a kid to show authority, you're a fucking loser.



Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#4 7 years ago
1. HITTING MODELS HITTING

If I don't think hitting is wrong I'm hardly likely to care. Next.

2. HITTING DEVALUES THE CHILD

The child's self-image begins with how he perceives that others – especially his parents – perceive him Even in the most loving homes, spanking gives a confusing message, especially to a child too young to understand the reason for the whack. Parents spend a lot of time building up their baby or child's sense of being valued, helping the child feel "good." Then the child breaks a glass, you spank, and he feels, "I must be bad."

Nowhere have you argued for this. You've just restated it at length.

3. HITTING DEVALUES THE PARENT Parents who spank-control or otherwise abusively punish their children often feel devalued themselves because deep down they don't feel right about their way of discipline.

Often - fuzzy language. Basically if you're fine with it this point wouldn't convince you anyway.

4. HITTING MAY LEAD TO ABUSE Punishment escalates. Once you begin punishing a child "a little bit," where do you stop?

Goes for any form of punishment.

5. HITTING DOES NOT IMPROVE BEHAVIOR Many times we have heard parents say, "The more we spank the more he misbehaves." Spanking makes a child's behavior worse, not better. Here's why. Remember the basis for promoting desirable behavior: The child who feels right acts right.

Anecdotes and conjecture.

6. HITTING IS ACTUALLY NOT BIBLICAL

Lulz

7. HITTING PROMOTES ANGER - IN CHILDREN AND IN PARENTS Children often perceive punishment as unfair.

Goes for all punishments

They are more likely to rebel against corporal punishment than against other disciplinary techniques.

Even if true doesn't necessarily relate to the anger thing. Also needs citation.

Children do not think rationally like adults,

That's just bullshit - as thousands of school essays, and forum posts and so on will give testament to. Really I've had rational discussions with five year olds; they needed to calm down first but they were certainly vulnerable to reason. If you can't have a rational discussion with your kid - you are at fault.

but they do have an innate sense of fairness—

Citation needed.

though their standards are not the same as adults.

Adults standards are not the same as other adults. Wow there's some variance. Though really a five year old can generally tell you that murder's wrong.... Well, they'll probably use a word like mean or nasty but --- roughly the same thing.

8. HITTING BRINGS BACK BAD MEMORIES A child's memories of being spanked can scar otherwise joyful scenes of growing up. People are more likely to recall traumatic events than pleasant ones.

A large part of the point of a punishment is to be remembered. If it's forgotten all the time it's not very effective.

9 appears to be missing.

10. SPANKING DOESN'T WORK Many studies show the futility of spanking as a disciplinary technique, but none show its usefulness.

'Many studies.... None.' Forgive me if I don't take your word for the idea that you've read every single study on the subject that's ever been published. Especially given that you then veer into anecdote again.

You have to come up with a way to falsify your belief and then show me the study that tries and fails to do that. That's convincing. 'Many studies' and 'none' is just someone's word. And their word's not worth shit to me.

----

Do I actually think it's wrong? No. I think it's suboptimal - that if you're a good parent you won't do it. But I think that some parents are bad parents - and for some parents it's effectively all they have left. They're too stupid to have raised a decent kid or to correct the problem now they've created it - and the only thing they can really do is keep them cowed with their fists until they leave home and get chucked in jail or killed by someone for starting something they can't finish. Certainly the care system isn't going to do any better.




Emperor Benedictine

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#5 7 years ago

Striking a child because you can't find a better way to keep them under control is by nature an admission of failure, so it speaks for itself. Striking a child because you think the infliction of pain is a sufficient means of molding a child into a functional human being is on about the same level as getting a voodoo priest to perform exorcisms on them, in my opinion.




Asheekay

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#6 7 years ago

Emperor Benedictine;5589416Striking a child because you can't find a better way to keep them under control is by nature an admission of failure, so it speaks for itself.[/QUOTE]

Correct. [QUOTE=Emperor Benedictine;5589416] Striking a child because you think the infliction of pain is a sufficient means of molding a child into a functional human being is on about the same level as getting a voodoo priest to perform exorcisms on them, in my opinion.

Agreed.

What about hitting a child because he has hit another weaker/younger child first?

Hitting him because he snatched things from him?

Broken their toys?

The list goes on. Point is, hitting a child for the sake of control is indeed a symbol of weakness and lack of potential. But what about hitting him for offending another child first?




Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#7 7 years ago

Asheekay;5589640Agreed.

What about hitting a child because he has hit another weaker/younger child first?

Hitting him because he snatched things from him?

Broken their toys?

The list goes on. Point is, hitting a child for the sake of control is indeed a symbol of weakness and lack of potential. But what about hitting him for offending another child first?

You should try reason and non-corporal punishments before you move on to knocking them around. And really, since you'll be more likely to default to force than go and search for other non-corporal punishments, or a better argument, if you think it's permissible, it may not be wise to think even that far....

I'm inclined to say, if you've failed to raise a decent kid, it's mostly on you anyway.




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#8 7 years ago

No. Something given has no value. When you discipline a child, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived. - Mr. Rasczak




Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#9 7 years ago

Really? I'll give the child over here a gun and we'll see what value you think that has in terms of violence....




Asheekay

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#10 7 years ago

I'm not into argument with you, Nemmerle. When you run out of reason and rational arguments, you step down to implicit insult and flaming.

Definitely not the person I'd like to argue with.

SedistixNo. Something given has no value. When you discipline a child, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived. - Mr. Rasczak

Haha. So which side exactly are you flowing? Approve or disapprove corporal punishment?