Cryogenic Freezing 20 replies

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Flash525

The Carbon Comrade

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#1 12 years ago

Ok, well most of you should know what this is, but for those that don't:

Cryogenics is the study of very low temperatures or the production of the same, and is often confused with cryobiology, the study of the effect of low temperatures on organisms, or the study of cryopreservation. Likewise, cryonics is the nascent study of the cryopreservationof the human body. Unlike cryogenics, cryonics is not an established science and is viewed with skepticism by most scientists and doctors today.

Quoted from: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenics Now, whilst thats the overhaul of it, I'd like to discuss something deeper. That being Cryogenic Freezing for us (people). Its known, and its used. What happens with this, is before you die, you give a Cryogenics company a sum of money, and then upon your death, they pump out all your Blood and then freeze your body for hope of one day bringing you back to life. There are (at least from what I know) two types of people that do this. Simply those that grow old and die, and there are also those that become ill, and do it of hoping that upon their "re-wake" their illness can be cured. I once read somewhere (I can't remember where, though I believe it to be a News Article of some kind) that trying to resurrect someone after Cryogenic-ally Freezing them, is the same as trying to bring back a Cow from a Beef Burger. This (I'm hoping others have read) I don't believe. The simple reason is that a Beef Burger isn't a Cow, its a portion of it, and a very small portion. At least with Cryogenic Freezing you'd have the whole body. Additionally, with that, for someone they are going to freeze and bring back to life in X number of years, I fail to see why they remove the Blood, but still. In time, I believe that Cryogenic Freezing and resurrection (from Cryogenic Freezing) will be possible. Science evolves all the time, and with time, no doubt they will be able to bring people back to life. Granted, it may not be for a good hundred years or more, but I believe it one day to be a possibility. Though, with this, there are several problems of which I can think of. [INDENT]1) Those people that are frozen, and then again thawed out are going to be alone. Unless they get frozen with a partner or something. They are going to wake up, not knowing anyone, and the world is going to be so different to what they knew. 2) Those people that are once again woken up, must "live" with the knowledge that they will one day die again, and they may not be able to be resurrected for a second time. 3) Those that do it because of an illness have a chance that a cure be found, and them woken, to have this cure. Who's' to say that something else wont kill them? 4) Those that do it because of dying from old age. They are going to wake up once again, but still be old, crippled and slow (not to be disrespectful). What do they possibly have to gain? Continually resurrecting someone who has died simply because they got old can't possibly do the body any good. Other than continually replacing organs, there is only so far they can go on. 5) This one being somewhat important, so I shall lay it out below: [/INDENT]Religion (and before I start, I mean no offence to any that are religious). It is said (in many religions) that once you die, you go to an afterlife, or become some form of energy.Ok, so, holding that thought, if you die, and go to that afterlife, and are then "brought back", would you have any memory of that afterlife? I think not. For the afterlife may be well beyond anything we can currently imagine, thus the Human Brain wouldn't be "compatible" (in so many words) with the knowledge of it. Thus, you would "return" not having any knowledge of the time you were dead, thus would end up thinking that there is no afterlife, and you would spend your time shitting yourself over what is going to happen once you die. If you weren't to come back, you wouldn't know about it. As with Death, if there is an afterlife, you'll know about it when you die and find yourself there, if there isn't, then put simply, you aren't going to know it doesn't exist. There is also the possibility that these companies take your money, then just dispose of your body. They can't do this by law, but no doubt there are some backstreet opportunists who go by this at a reduced price, then just take the money and get rid of the body. I guess this open for general discussion, and views of Cryogenic Freezing. Although I ask you feel free to talk about religion (as I've included it as one of the points) I'd ask that this doesn't turn into a Religious Debate, there is a Religious Discussion already on the Forums. If you wish to talk about Religion in detail, go do it there. Thanks. :feedback:




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#2 12 years ago

Benny, Benny the dog.




emonkies

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#3 12 years ago

IIRC the blood is removed mostly because the majority of blood is plasma which is mostly salt water. When the temperature is lowered enough even salt water will freeze and then crystallization occurs and that is what destroys the cell walls, resulting in wide spread damage.

Cryogenics is still being studied, for one by NASA in the hopes that a crew can be frozen and revived at the target just as in the movie "2001". A crew in stasis would consume no supplies and consume no oxygen.




masked_marsoe VIP Member

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#4 12 years ago
Those that do it because of an illness have a chance that a cure be found, and them woken, to have this cure. Who's' to say that something else wont kill them? Those that do it because of dying from old age. They are going to wake up once again, but still be old, crippled and slow (not to be disrespectful). What do they possibly have to gain? Continually resurrecting someone who has died simply because they got old can't possibly do the body any good. Other than continually replacing organs, there is only so far they can go on.

Those are the two main points for me. Even if (and that's a massive if) it worked:

What's the point in surviving your illness if you've lost all your friends and family, and probably your money too. You end up alone some time in the future. Woohoo.

And secondly, old age means your time is up. I wish more people would realise that.

Cryogenics in space is an idea perhaps worth investigating, ala 2001 or more Planet of the Apes, but given the distances of space, faster travel would be much more important.

Edit: 2000th post!




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#5 12 years ago

masked_marsoeThose are the two main points for me. Even if (and that's a massive if) it worked:

What's the point in surviving your illness if you've lost all your friends and family, and probably your money too. You end up alone some time in the future. Woohoo.

And secondly, old age means your time is up. I wish more people would realise that.

Cryogenics in space is an idea perhaps worth investigating, ala 2001 or more Planet of the Apes, but given the distances of space, faster travel would be much more important.

Edit: 2000th post!

I agree that old age is a silly reason to do it, but I think illness is a legitamate thing to freeze yourself for. If you know you will be dying soon I would much rather get frozen and come back later in full health, then just die outright. Sure I wouldn't have my friends or family(depends on how long it takes to develop a cure) but I wouldn't have them if I died anyways. Plus you can always develop new friendships, hell, you might very well develop better ones. It would be pretty freaky if you met the love of your life 400 years in the future.

And don't get me started on technology. I can just imagine what the world will be like in a few thosand years. If they could keep me frozen long enough that I'll be able to participate in space travel then that is more then a good enough reason for me to do it.

In theory it works, and in practice it sort of works.

In July 2005 scientists at the University of Pittsburgh's Safar Center for Resuscitation Research announced they had managed to bring dogs back to life with no brain damage by draining the blood out of the dog's bodies and putting an ice cold solution into their circulatory systems, which in turn keeps the bodies alive in stasis. After 3 hours of being clinically dead, the dogs were revived by an electric shock to their hearts. The heart started pumping the blood around the frozen body, and the dogs were brought back to life. Scientists hope to begin human testing and have already begun discussions with hospitals to use "suspended animation" if everything else fails. Safar Research also pioneered modern CPR techniques.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspended_animation

It was short term but it shows that it might very well work.




Flash525

The Carbon Comrade

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#6 12 years ago
Anlushac11Cryogenics is still being studied, for one by NASA in the hopes that a crew can be frozen and revived at the target just as in the movie "2001". A crew in stasis would consume no supplies and consume no oxygen.

So... who'd be there to take out the Blood?

In July 2005 scientists at the University of Pittsburgh's Safar Center for Resuscitation Research announced they had managed to bring dogs back to life with no brain damage by draining the blood out of the dog's bodies and putting an ice cold solution into their circulatory systems, which in turn keeps the bodies alive in stasis. After 3 hours of being clinically dead, the dogs were revived by an electric shock to their hearts. The heart started pumping the blood around the frozen body, and the dogs were brought back to life. Scientists hope to begin human testing and have already begun discussions with hospitals to use "suspended animation" if everything else fails. Safar Research also pioneered modern CPR techniques.

I've read that before, I think there was a Forum Thread on it in the GD at one point. But, bare in mind, with this there was a 3 hour gap. Something tells me that would vary from 30 years.




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#7 12 years ago
SupaStarAshSo... who'd be there to take out the Blood?

I think they are looking for ways to do it without taking out the blood. Either that or have automated systems do all the work.

I've read that before, I think there was a Forum Thread on it in the GD at one point. But, bare in mind, with this there was a 3 hour gap. Something tells me that would vary from 30 years.

True, but it atleast shows the possibility of it working. The first flight only lasted a few seconds, but now we are in flying through space at ridiculous speeds on missions that last days and weeks.




masked_marsoe VIP Member

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#8 12 years ago
AfterburnerI think they are looking for ways to do it without taking out the blood. Either that or have automated systems do all the work. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Anlushac]IIRC the blood is removed mostly because the majority of blood is plasma which is mostly salt water. When the temperature is lowered enough even salt water will freeze and then crystallization occurs and that is what destroys the cell walls, resulting in wide spread damage.

I don't think that it is possible to do it given the nature of human blood, or in fact mammilian blood, so some automated process is needed.




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#9 12 years ago
masked_marsoeI don't think that it is possible to do it given the nature of human blood, or in fact mammilian blood, so some automated process is needed.

That's the more likely course, but you never know.

Also, they could simply leave one crew member(or two so that person doesn't go insane or something) and then have them put everyone else into stasis. It would still conserve supplies since you would only have a fraction of the crew using up those supplies, and the crew being put in stasis might feel a bit better knowing that someone will be there to thaw 'em out, instead of a machine.




masked_marsoe VIP Member

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#10 12 years ago

Tricky for a long journey, like 40 years or more, which I believe is the point of cryogenics in space.