Democracy- Is it? 61 replies

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Keyser_Soze

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3rd May 2009

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#1 8 years ago

As you probably know, i am ideologically very liberal socially- you can't get social liberalism much further than me (neoconservatives, social liberalism isn't socialism- socialism is primarily an economics-driven ideology, not a social ideology). however, in recent months, events in my nation have cause me to distubingly become increasingly cynical, even apathetic about a concept i hold dear to my heart- Democracy.

democracy is a great way of keeping order, but i'm starting to think it's all an illusion. look at the UK- i voted Liberal Democrats- my party got in partly. what did i get? nothing worthy of mention. look at the USA in 2000- the bloody electoral college, the people wanted gore. they got bush.the fault lies with first past the post. in the UK in particular, 1 vote isn't worth 1 vote. as of 2005, a labour seat, on average, required 19,000 votes. a liberal democrat seat required 30,000 seats. that's not right. in 2005, lib dems got 23% of the vote. they got 9% of the seats. if you get 23% of votes, you should get 23% of seats. they call the west a liberal democracy. the way i see it, a liberal democracy is one where the parties get in the assembly, where the people get what the vote says the people wanted. it may be less stable, but to be truly democratic requires truly proportional representation. not a system that favours those parties which are established- those which have won elections in the past. In the UK, we need a system where 1 vote is worth one vote. a true Proportional representation system. not a compromise like AMS, true PR. this may increase coalitions, but hopefully to the extent where we get a coherent outcome which allows policies to be more honored than they are in the UK now, where there's a bitch party (lib dems) and the tories. while the lib dems got less eats, and it has to be accepted there's a hierachy, the Lib dem's main policies have been completely ignored. at least one should be adopted. it's absurd that 1 vote is not worth one vote, and i cannot for the life of me figure out why this is the case, and if so, why it can't be like that- it's simple maths- 1=1. in that, it is possible to be done. it needs to be done.

In the USA, the electoral college needs to be abolished- it was created to allow for the vote of the people to be moderated by the elite, to allow the popular candidate to get in by allowing the member of the electoral college- an elite person, to vote for whoever the hell he wanted. that was in 1789. it's 2010. 10 years after 2000. i find it unacceptable that absolutely nothing has been done about the electoral college after this. i find it unacceptably that a system with so many checks and balances allows for a minority to get power. yes, it's only happened twice, but it could happen again in the future. admittedly the electoral college wasn't responsible for the undermining of democracy in the way i described- it was responsible by ignoring flawed voting tickets, but it was still the electoral college that disallowed democracy being used. it was tyranny of the minority- something that the founding fathers created the constitution for- to prevent such an event. thoughts?




Freyr VIP Member

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#2 8 years ago

Paragraphs.

Of course democracy is an illusion. It's designed to keep the people from rebelling against the elites by making it appear their interests are being represented.

Besides, your not cynical about democracy yet. Give it 10-20 years and you'll realise why people trust politicians so much.




Keyser_Soze

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#3 8 years ago

Was written using a proxy server. Gf is down for some reason on my Internet. Think I fixed it. People trust politicians because people are idiots. Politicians are individuals. That makes them selfish. Look at the expenses scandal. In the USA, pork barrel spending also has a big effect.




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#4 8 years ago

Freyr;5429991Paragraphs.

Of course democracy is an illusion. It's designed to keep the people from rebelling against the elites by making it appear their interests are being represented.

Exactly.

It's all a circus, bells and whistles with an insidious reality beneath it all.




jackripped

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2nd December 2009

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#5 8 years ago

Yea but you have the choice, l don't see any of you lining up to go to Iran and live under there rule, or China to be totally dictated too. As much as democracy is a bit of an illusion, our western way of life is still superior to allot of other advanced non democratic societies on this planet.




Nemmerle Forum Mod

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26th May 2003

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#6 8 years ago

[INDENT][T]he sage, in the exercise of her government, empties [the peoples'] minds, fills their bellies, weakens their wills, and strengthens their bones.

She constantly (tries to) keep them without knowledge and without desire, and where there are those who have knowledge, to keep them from presuming to act (on it). When there is this abstinence from action, good order is universal.[/INDENT]

- Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

People wouldn't rebel anyway. Stick some TV on, fill their stomachs....




Emperor Benedictine

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16th April 2005

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#7 8 years ago

There is no real democracy of the type people are led to believe in, for the simple reason that politicians are not truly accountable to their electorate and are under no obligation whatsoever to fulfil the promises they make in order to get elected. In essense the "choice" you are given is between one appealing lie and another. The democracy we have is not really a system where the people have the power to shape their own future. It is a system where the different forces in government vie with each other see who can dupe the public into believing their particular myth and then provide them with the most convincing approximation of freedom and prosperity. It adds the element of competition to the workings of the state and gives those in power a motive for improving the public's sense of wellbeing that is somewhat relevant to their own absolute self-interest. But for the most part it only provides us a comfortable illusion of choice.




Mr. Pedantic

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8th October 2006

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#8 8 years ago
Yea but you have the choice, l don't see any of you lining up to go to Iran and live under there rule, or China to be totally dictated too. As much as democracy is a bit of an illusion, our western way of life is still superior to allot of other advanced non democratic societies on this planet.

So what, just because we have a passable system (and I wouldn't really want to call it more than that) we shouldn't strive to make it better?

And I'm not so sure about the inherent superiority of a democratic system. Sure, the people get the say (maybe...in some places...some of the time...). But what if you're one of the minority? And what if the constituency is stupid, or short-sighted, or corrupt? Just because it's what people want doesn't mean it's what people need.

[T]he sage, in the exercise of her government, empties [the peoples'] minds, fills their bellies, weakens their wills, and strengthens their bones.

She constantly (tries to) keep them without knowledge and without desire, and where there are those who have knowledge, to keep them from presuming to act (on it). When there is this abstinence from action, good order is universal. - Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

People wouldn't rebel anyway. Stick some TV on, fill their stomachs....

This is important. Because while living in a democratic country is good, living in a country where you can be happy and prosperous regardless of the government is even better.




jackripped

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2nd December 2009

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#9 8 years ago

Ok so Emperor, when are you moving to Iran ? Or dont you like there way of life ? Maybe China is for you then ?




Embee

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13th December 2009

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#10 8 years ago

I'd prefer to live in a dictatorship, where my country is in prosperity and the people are living well, rather than living in a democracy, where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer .

In MY opinion, democracy is just twisted, and not really democracy anymore, rather a "people's aristocracy". If a politically educated farmer can get elected, then it's democracy.