Did Jehovah lie to Abraham in Genesis? 32 replies

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Joe Bonham

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10th December 2005

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#1 10 years ago

Consider the Passage in Genesis when the angels visit Abraham, and tell him he will have a child. Sarah is listening in the tent, and laughs, saying to herself "After I am worn out and my master is old, will I now have this pleasure?" This statement of course, implies that ol' Abe doesn't have the... ahem... stamina for this undertaking. The Lord hears what she said, but when he repeats it to Abraham, he tactfully changes it a little: "Why did Sarah laugh and say, 'will I now have a child, now that I am old?'" This is the white lie - a lie told, but with good intentions, out of tact. What are your thoughts on this? I'll post mine tomorrow, it's getting late. (That thread title was just there to get your attention, btw. heh heh)




Kwould

OK, but wash it first

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24th November 2003

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#2 10 years ago

I was always under the impression that the verse(s) in question (Genesis 18 12-13) were not tactful changes as you put it, but rather a rephrasing of the same statement. In my opinion, "pleasure" refers to her honored gratefulness for being given a child (or the ability to have one). King James version: 12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, "After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?" 13 And the LORD said unto Abraham, "Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?"




ItsChip

My face hurts.

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9th March 2008

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#3 10 years ago

Yeah,i just dont believe in the God from the bible,i believe there is some sort of God somewhere but i think the whole bible stories is too far fetched with little proof.




Pb2Au

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4th October 2004

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#4 10 years ago

Look, every culture has mythologies. The stories in the bible are equally far-fetched as the stories of Greek and Babylonian mythology. As it turns out, the 'god' of every religion is the summation of the human qualities human followers of that religion value (or are taught to value) most. For example, Christians value brotherhood, charity, and love, thus 'God' is the paragon of those. Muslims value individual strength, strong group bonds and loyalty, and caring for members of your group. Thus Allah is based on those values. The Greeks were a more philosophical culture with no standard values, thus their Gods were quite simply various personality types. This is where a chicken and egg type argument comes in: does 'God' reflect the desirable characteristics of believers because humans created God, or do humans value those characteristics because their 'God' represents them and 'programmed' them into the soul? I personally believe the former, based on the noticeable fact that, in many religions, 'God's' values change with time. If God had set values which His believers came to follow (the latter argument), why is there a strong fluctuation in God's personality between the Old Testament and the New Testament? That would be more indicative that, as the values of the Hebrew and Christian culture evolved as related to their transition from nomadic tribes to a kingdom, the values of 'God' had to move as well to accomodate.




TParis

Sexeh like teh gizmo

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19th June 2004

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#5 10 years ago

There is no god, live with it people!




Joe Bonham

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#6 10 years ago

How about staying on the topic at hand? If you want to argue about whether or not God exists, there's the religious discussion thread.

Kwould;4356985I was always under the impression that the verse(s) in question (Genesis 18 12-13) were not tactful changes as you put it, but rather a rephrasing of the same statement. In my opinion, "pleasure" refers to her honored gratefulness for being given a child (or the ability to have one). King James version: 12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, "After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?" 13 And the LORD said unto Abraham, "Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?"

I understand what you mean, and it could be true. But if that is what she meant, why did God rephrase it?




Pb2Au

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4th October 2004

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#7 10 years ago

The name of the thread is 'God is a Lie.' While it is inappropriately named for the content, I think this pretty much does deal with the topic on hand as per the thread title. On the topic of the bible, then, the texts are translations of translations of translations. The exact meaning of a passage cannot be adequately examined by looking at it in a modern English Bible. In fact, considering that there are multiple translations of the Bible in all languages, there is probably a version where God repeats Sarah's lament verbatim. Basically, the point is moot because this is, in no way, an unchanged text.




*Daedalus

A Phoenix from the ashes

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18th April 2006

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#8 10 years ago

My contribution: meh.




Joe Bonham

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#9 10 years ago

yeah, as I mentioned in my first post, the thread title was just to get peoples attention. a dirty trick I know, but I knew the thread would probably get ignored otherwise. :)pb2, that's a very good point. I obviously can't read hebrew, so I'm speculating. but all the translations seem to agree on this one point.especially considering there are a lot of tongue in cheek moments in the old testament. I think this is one of them.




Joe Bonham

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#10 10 years ago

that's an excellent point pb2. but all translations seem to agree on this point.also note that this hardly the only sexually charged moment in the ot