Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003 9 replies

Please wait...

Dot Com

I'm too cool to Post

50 XP

26th June 2000

0 Uploads

6,116 Posts

0 Threads

#1 11 years ago

The Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003, also known as The Patriot Act II, Son of Patriot, and various other similar names is draft legislation written by John Ashcroft's Department of Justice. The Center for Public Integrity obtained a copy of the draft, marked "confidential," on February 7, 2003 and posted it on its web site along with commentary.

The draft version of the bill would expand the powers of the United States while simultaneously curtailing judicial review of these powers. Members of the United States Congress said that they had not seen the drafts, though the documents obtained by the CPI indicated that House speaker Dennis Hastert and US Vice President Dick Cheney have received copies.

Some commentators speculated that Ashcroft did not actually believe that any of the measures outlined in the bill would be passed but that he deliberately asked for such radical measures to preclude controversy when a trimmed down version is later introduced that contains somewhat less far-reaching plans. It has also been suggested that had the text of the bill not been leaked, the administration would have delayed its deployment to co-incide with a future terrorist attack in an attempt to secure a wider basis for approval of its measures.

Provisions of the February 7th draft version included:

* Removal of court-ordered prohibitions against police agencies spying on domestic groups. * The FBI would be granted powers to conduct searches and surveillance based on intelligence gathered in foreign countries without first obtaining a court order. * Creation of a DNA database of suspected terrorists. * Prohibition of any public disclosure of the names of alleged terrorists including those who have been arrested. * Exemptions from civil liability for people and businesses who voluntarily turn private information over to the government. * Criminalization of the use of encryption to conceal incriminating communications. * Automatic denial of bail for persons accused of terrorism-related crimes, reversing the ordinary common law burden of proof principle. All alleged terrorists would be required to demonstrate why they should be released on bail rather than the government being required to demonstrate why they should be held. * Expansion of the list of crimes eligible for the death penalty. * The Environmental Protection Agency would be prevented from releasing "worst case scenario" information to the public about chemical plants. * United States citizens whom the government finds to be either members of, or providing material support to, terrorist groups could have their US citizenship revoked and be deported to foreign countries.

Some provisions of this act have been tacked onto other bills such as the Senate Spending bill and subsequently passed.

The ACLU has been a vocal opponent of the PATRIOT Act of 2001, the proposed (as of 2003) PATRIOT 2 Act, and other associated legislation made in response to the threat of domestic terrorism that it believes violates either the letter and/or the spirit of the U.S. Bill of Rights.

On January 31, 2006 the Center for Public Integrity published a story on its website that claimed that this proposed legislation undercut the Bush administration's legal rationale of its NSA wiretapping program.

Now my main concern is this:

Some provisions of this act have been tacked onto other bills such as the Senate Spending bill and subsequently passed.

Is that true and which provisions were passed? This is an outrageous breach on our liberties and goes against a lot of the things America stands for. :uhm:




Relander

Ambassador

50 XP

8th April 2005

0 Uploads

2,538 Posts

0 Threads

#2 11 years ago

It's also quite worrying and unparliamentary to include propositions into bills that have only little if anything to do with the actual propositions like in the case of mentioned senate spending bill.

So into what extent the people are ready to turn over their freedoms & privacy for security? Mighty declarations about freedom being superb value, the Constitution and Bill of Rights quickly vanish when the "war on terror" steps in.




Guest

I didn't make it!

0 XP

 
#3 11 years ago

Very spooky stuff. Funny how this kind of information gets like zero media coverage too. CNN sure as shit can show me nonsensical five minute spots on an orphaned squirrel that a cat has taken into its new litter, but when its comes to the laws of my country, they pass by unnoticed and unfettered. America, the America some of us remember, is quickly dying, and will more then likely be replaced by a tyrannical government. Ever seen V for Vendetta. Eerily similar contrasts, that will surely contrast stronger as time passes by.

The fact that few if any have even posted in this thread shows how important some people think this is. Within the apathetic bubble of American suburbanites, we’ve become benumbed; consequences become diffuse; history and political acts carry no more weight for us than a television commercial for chewing gum or toilet paper.




AlDaja

SFC III Troubleshooter.

50 XP

5th September 2006

0 Uploads

11,263 Posts

0 Threads

#4 11 years ago

There are covert elements within our government spanning both mainstream political agendas that wish to undermine and destroy American ideals and our status in the world…this is just one more chip out of the wall. Many are home grown haters but others seep into this country and fester ideals dangerous to what we hold dear. My father observed that once upon a time, people came to this country in hopes of a better life and strived to become Americans…now, people come to this country spit on our way of life and demand we become like them – the best way to influence is to rewrite our liberties. We (those who hold traditional, American ideals as wholesome and good) are loosing the good fight, we have no spoke person (save ourselves and if we speak too loudly we are hushed by political and/or economic means), we have no role models, and we have no leadership. This great “ship” has sprung a leak and is sinking thanks to the “rats” that infest her. Well, at least I know I won’t have to live long when the tyrants do take over…cause outspoken people like myself will be drug-out into the street and shot.




jeff & eddie

Spreading the Word.

50 XP

12th March 2006

0 Uploads

412 Posts

0 Threads

#5 11 years ago

Please. Americans still have so many more rights than other people around the world. Even way more than countries in europe which are often said to be "free-er". People take their rights for granted here, happens all the time. Last week we had "americans" suggesting the WBC be silenced and executed, and now today we have people willing to put everyone else at risk because they're too selfish to apply the death penality to more crimes.

Nonsense. To even suggest that America is turning into a tyrannical society, is a slap in the face to people who have suffered legitimate oppression.

If you live in America, get this through your head. You are not being oppressed. You are free. The constitution hinders the governments power for your benefit.




Junk angel

Huh, sound?

166,880 XP

29th January 2007

0 Uploads

15,678 Posts

0 Threads

#6 11 years ago

Hmmm let's get this straight

"free-er"

Let's go and look at a few american laws Dyersburg, South Dakota

it is illegal foe women to call up men on the phone and ask them out for a date. texas

It's illegal to take more than 3 sips of beer while standing up Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

It's illegal to sleep in a refrigirator {/code] Pennsylvania

A man must have a written permission from his wife in order to buy alcohol--I like this one :) Washington

No concealed weapons over 2 metres long are allowed to be on your body

Pennsylvania

If a horse refuses to pass a car, the car must be taken apart, and all of it's parts hidden in th bushes untill the horse safely passes.

I'm not saying simmiliar laws exist in some parts of europe as well (like no prostitues in spain can be called maria), but some of these laws go directly against the constitution. Of course, they probably aren't enforced, but they exist nevertheless




Bright_idea

The 'Enlightened' One

50 XP

30th November 2004

0 Uploads

15 Posts

0 Threads

#7 11 years ago

My god those laws are hidious




jeff & eddie

Spreading the Word.

50 XP

12th March 2006

0 Uploads

412 Posts

0 Threads

#8 11 years ago

wraithcat;3656644Hmmm let's get this straight

[...]

I'm not saying simmiliar laws exist in some parts of europe as well (like no prostitues in spain can be called maria), but some of these laws go directly against the constitution. Of course, they probably aren't enforced, but they exist nevertheless

You can mention as many old, outdated, laws as you want. They still remain on the books, because they do not have sunset clauses. But they are no longer enforced. The point is that, citizens of the US bitching about how oppressed they are, have no concept of oppression. They have no concept of what it means to live under real tyranny. We have rights protected by the constitution, that many other people do not enjoy. If you live the UK, Austraila, or other "free" places, even the most basic right of self preservation is obliterated.




Junk angel

Huh, sound?

166,880 XP

29th January 2007

0 Uploads

15,678 Posts

0 Threads

#9 11 years ago

Actually people from post iron courtain lands know much more about freedom than your average us citizen. Why? They can compare.

Know what do you mean with the right of self preservation?




Junk angel

Huh, sound?

166,880 XP

29th January 2007

0 Uploads

15,678 Posts

0 Threads

#10 11 years ago

Hmm to late to edit.

I wanted to stress another point here, and that is social freedom. Just one of the many stories I know, is that a deo spray, which had the abbreviation F.c.u.k. printed on it, had to write out the entire name, to be able to sell in the Us, the entire world had no problem with the far-stretched resemblance to the word fuck, except america.

Or the fact that even if your counted as grown up in just about everythink, you can't have a drink legally untill 21.

Or that people get on sexual deviants list for 25 years--and there's isn't the reason for it written there.

I remember the story of a number of boys, that dated a girl that was actually a year older than them, they slept withher and she wrote everythink in her diary. Later her parents discovered this diary and reported each and everyy one of the boys If I'm not mistaken,the girl was sixteen, while most of the boys were 15. Each of them is now on this freely accesible list. There names are next to those of real perverts and deviants. And yet there is no differentiation. Nothing about who commited what.

And now, they have major problems getting a job, hausing or getting ontu a school.

If you save that is freedom, I have to laugh.

now to the actual problems in this ptriot act

* Prohibition of any public disclosure of the names of alleged terrorists including those who have been arrested.

The Us is able to take into custody anyone without informing anyone that they have him---ahem that's a little far streched isn't it (of course my english may not be up to par to actually understand this)

* Exemptions from civil liability for people and businesses who voluntarily turn private information over to the government.

hmm so if I tell you about myself I won't have such high taxes

* United States citizens whom the government finds to be either members of, or providing material support to, terrorist groups could have their US citizenship revoked and be deported to foreign countries.

And what if this alleged Us citizen has no other citizenships? Is he suddenly a person without a home? And who defines where this person is send to? And how can we know, tha the peron was indeed a terrorrist supporter?