Donald's Immigraton Flip Flop 6 replies

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FileTrekker Über Admin

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#1 5 months ago

We're keeping families together, people.

This is Donald Trump's desire, after see the recent horrors of families being separated in detention centers at the US border. It seems Donald could not stand to see families torn apart and children crying, sat together in giant cages unsupervised, apparently this did not sit well with him. It's funny given he created the situation in the first place, but apparently he's had a change of heart.

Now it was only the other day I saw tweets from the charismatic Mr. Trump stating that the policy would stand and that we should not feel sorry for these families, who he branded criminals, who use children as an excuse to try and get across the border.

He seems to have done a total flip flop on the matter.

It seems clear to me that the blacklash on this has been too great, and he knew it. He couldn't continue with this policy without loosing the support of a lot of people, and now he's trying to backpaddle, despite the fact the new executive order he's just signed in won't reunite the children already torn away from their parents.


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Jeff Über Admin

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#2 5 months ago

Another issue is that, from what I've read, there isn't any documentation that can link the children to their parents. If they are able to one day get out of these detention centers, there's really no procedure in place to reunite them. 

Also this horseshit;

The experiences and allegations described by the children and some of their parents in the filings include:

  • Children were not informed about what conditions they apparently had. "I don't remember if I got anything in writing about their decision but I don't think I had an opportunity to challenge it ... I took nine pills in the morning and seven in the evening. I don't know what medications I was taking; no one ever told me that. I don't know what my diagnosis or illness is." 
  • Physical force was used to administer drugs. "I also saw staff throw another youth to the ground, pry his mouth open and force him to take the medicine ... They told me that if I did not take the medicine I could not leave, that the only way I could get out of Shiloh was if I took the pills." 
  • Staff members initiated tranquilizations. "When [a staff member at Shiloh] would call the medical staff, they would come and give me a shot to tranquilize me. It happened many times. They would give me the shot and then I would start to feel sleepy and heavy, and like I didn't have any strength. I would sleep for three or four hours and then wake up and slowly start to feel my strength return. When the staff did that, they left me in the classroom near the wall to sleep." 
  • Children were verbally abused by staff to provoke a response. "Some of the staff at Shiloh would provoke the children there and make us angry intentionally. They made us act violently so then we had to be given shots. The staff would call us names like 'sons of a whore.'" 
  • Some were unable to walk normally. "They are requiring [my daughter] to take very powerful medications for anxiety. I have noted that [she] is becoming more nervous, fearful, and she trembles. [She] tells me that she has fallen several times ... because the medications were too powerful and she couldn't walk." 
  • Some children experienced unhealthy weight gain, including one who said they put on nearly 100 pounds. "After taking the medication, I was more tired, I felt sad and my eyes got teary ... I began to gain a lot of weight ... In approximately 60 days, I gained 45 pounds." 
  • Some were handcuffed for days on end. "At Shenandoah, my room had a mattress, a sink, and a toilet ... I was forced to wear handcuffs on my wrists and shackles on my feet for approximately 10 days in a row." 
  • Children were allowed outside for only one hour a day. "I am suffering a lot being in the Yolo Juvenile Detention Center. It is a jail and I sleep in a locked, small jail cell. I can't leave here and have no freedom at all. We only get one hour of time outside each day. I have to live in a small cell with concrete walls." 
  • Clothes were taken away. "Whenever I was put in restriction, they took away my mattress and blanket. They took my clothes away about 8 times."

I'd also like to point out just how illegal this is in International law with this little tidbit

The Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court is the treaty used to enforce the acts of crimes against humanity, genocide, and war crimes.

Article 7 of the treaty stated that:

For the purpose of this Statute, "crime against humanity" means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:

(a) Murder;

(b) Extermination;

(c) Enslavement;

(d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;

(e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;

(f) Torture;

(g) Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;

(h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;

(i) Enforced disappearance of persons;

(j) The crime of apartheid;

(k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health;

Not only are they comitting crimes against humanity, but this is against children! The entire trump family and all of his administration need to be forcefully removed. I don't care if they surrender, screw that. They've manipulated their circumstance long enough and need to be treated like those they persecute.

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Last edited by Jeff 5 months ago


That Team Rocket Guy

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#3 5 months ago

America is getting on all the worst lists with these activities.  The kind of lists that used to put American citizens in uniforms to liberate giant areas of territory by Far Right Militarists who believed in the supremacy of their own race and their right to inherit the Earth.

Gee, those views seem to coincide with the 'base' I keep hearing so much about for Trump.

Unrepentant Hoser

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#4 5 months ago
Andron Taps Forum Mod

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#5 5 months ago

Mhmm, the same thing happened a few days before at a Mexican restaurant:

Kirstjen Nielsen Is Confronted by Protesters at Mexican Restaurant: ‘Shame!’

It was glorious.

"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.

Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#6 5 months ago

This isn't just an America thing. Although my sympathies on acquiring the idiot in chief. We've had the likes of the BNP and that smirking slime Farage and Borris Johnson and the other delightful characters. Italy has its deputy prime-minister calling for a 'mass cleansing, street by street, quarter by quarter' of the Roma. 

The problem, frankly, is that it's all very well to believe in diversity and multi-culturalism when times are really good. But when times are thin people go looking for someone to blame. And that person had better not look much like them.

There's a serious lack of personal responsibility going around.

And so we have the leader of the free world president of one of the sole remaining super-powers stating, 'These aren't people. These are animals.' ... Taking children away from their parents surrounded by the rhetoric that they're less than human. Vermin, one might imagine, that - 'pour into and infest our Country.' Segregating them on racial lines. Telling the parents that they're being taken for a bath and then when the child is inquired after tell the parents that they won't be seeing them again...

From a certain point of view, that's very alluring rhetoric: It removes all responsibility from the individual, it provides something to do - even if what one is doing is just expressing hatred. It doesn't require any real intelligence to engage with. And even if you did later realise on some level or another that you'd voted a monster into power, voting against him later would require refuting that previous mistake. (And the more our cultures emphasise intelligence and not making mistakes and so on, the less likely that admission is.)

In the 1930s Germany was not alone either. They just made the mistake of going to war with white people. The insightful comment on Nazi Germany isn't the observation that if you'd been born there you'd be a Nazi, no-one seriously believes otherwise, but that if you exactly as you are now lived through the times shortly preceding the rise of the Third Reich, you'd probably have become a Nazi.

And we haven't really changed, I fear. We did the research into obedience, we wrote the books. We did research into intelligence and biases and wrote books about them too. And we didn't actually come up with any widely implemented training programs that utilised any of that knowledge. We just made laws, which are always subservient to the quality of the men you have enforcing them - as well we knew.

So now we have this - and we're all on some level or another responsible for it. And what do we do with that responsibility? Seeing that this is not all a theoretical exercise; that we might be on a very dark path. What should the Germans have done if they had known ahead of time where it was all going to end up? If they didn't get the chance to flinch away, into that dream of a great nation or a thousand year Reich, from how ugly things were becoming?

MrFancypants Forum Admin

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#7 5 months ago
Posted by Nemmerle

So now we have this - and we're all on some level or another responsible for it. And what do we do with that responsibility? Seeing that this is not all a theoretical exercise; that we might be on a very dark path. What should the Germans have done if they had known ahead of time where it was all going to end up? If they didn't get the chance to flinch away, into that dream of a great nation or a thousand year Reich, from how ugly things were becoming?

This is what it comes down to in the end; what can we do about it? I read quite a bit about the time in 1930s Germany and people who were trying to fight against the system. You were screwed either way; those who fought violence with violence legitimized the force used by the system against dissidents, those who fought using legal means lost as violence used by the opposite side couldn't be stopped by legal means after a certain critical mass of political support had been achieved by the right.

So then people generally had three options; play along, emigrate or risk their lives in some sort of underground resistance.

I think in some ways the situation today is even worse than it was in the 1930s. Modern technology makes a police state much more effective; the government can probably predict who is going to make trouble by using existing legislation to comb through social media data. Organized resistance becomes pretty much impossible when your movements can be tracked; you could ditch your technology, but that would make you stand out even more. Also, in the 1920s and 30s at least you had an equal distribution of weapons between all sides and big fraction of violent left-wing extremists ready to fight the right. In the US, even though weapons are legal, the political right is more heavily armed and better trained (including militais, neonazi parties and outright terrorist networks).

Nonviolence as used in India against the Britons and in the US against racists might help; it appeals to the mindset of the liberal/left political spectrum and can easily galvanize additional support due to clumsy response by trigger-happy rightists.

Also,maybe for the US a viable option could be a secession movements in those areas that are mostly liberal and contribute disproportionally to the country's economy. That could easily lead to violence as well, but at least in that case the right would have to drop the pretence.

tldr; find wealthy sponsors in high-tech areas and organize civil-disobedience actions aimed at secession of coastal states. Brand it as expulsion of the backwards idiots who trample on the constitution with option to rejoin the federation to make the other side look like the traitors.