Egypt 25 replies

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#11 13 years ago

Quote: Don't forget this interesting Egyptian hieroglyphic character:

The Ankh represents both life and afterlife. Déjà vu anyone?

but the reason that is our artifact is the fact that Jesus died on a cross similar to that.

They are related :S




Jackthehammer

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#12 13 years ago

answers like that hurt my feelings.. thats like saying, im religious, because I played black and white once.




Young_Pioneer

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#13 13 years ago

ConnerBrowerbut the reason that is our artifact is the fact that Jesus died on a cross similer to that.[/quote][quote=Wikipedia]

The ankh and the cross

200px-Coptic_bust.jpg magnify-clip.png Transitional ankh into Coptic cross found in the Fayuom, 1960s. The long standing importance of the Ankh, and its deep symbolism to the dynastic Egyptians, led to it being gradually adopted by the very early Christian church in Egypt (which eventually became the Coptic Church).

This is highly significant, as it is almost certainly the genesis of the cross, as the central thematic symbol of the Christian religion.

A kind of cross, the ankh, had long been a central religious symbol. It was non-anthropormorphic, not even animal-like. The gods had all been animal faced-human figures. Anknaton's benevolent sun, was the only other symbol that was so esoteric.

This cross implied all the "god ideas" that are very infinite in nature. As monotheism is at the core of Christian belief, the ankh seemed a good choice to symbolize the belief in one all powerful God.

Over time, the idea that his son had died on a kind of cross, made it seem, all the more appropriate.

To other Christians, outside of the ankh's influence, the image the Roman cross of execution was 'shameful" in the manner that a hanging noose would be, or headsman's ax. The association in Egypt of the ankh cross with both God the Father, and Jesus the Son, felt right.

Elsewhere, the main Christian symbol at the time had been a stylised alpha, resembling a fish, and therefore known as Ichthys, the Greek word for fish.

However, the new "more positive" symbol of a cross eventually spread throughout the Christianized Empire. The distinct circular or "gothic arch-like" upper part of the Ankh was kept well into mediaeval times. The Ankh symbol often was being used as a Christian talisman.

I think this explains quite well the origin of the "Christian" cross...




Mr. Matt VIP Member

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#14 13 years ago
jackthehammer~~~

Well, that's all a bit... erm... skewed. But I suppose the accuracy isn't the point; you're right that you can draw comparisons between various religions from past and present and find similarities. A lot of this is coincidence and subject to personal interpretation of course (for example, if you really look hard enough, and remain appropriately vague, you can find a lot of similarities between the Ancient Egyptian creation myth, and theories regarding aspects of Earth's early years), but it is a well-known fact that Christianity draws many elements from pagan beliefs and rituals. The cross has been used in many different religions, not just Kemeticism and Christianity -- it's a very popular religious symbol. I would have thought that it was more likely that Christians would have adopted the cross from the Celts of Europe, who also used a form of the cross extensively in their symbolism (you can see them frequently in Celtic monuments all over Britain), but there are many other possible sources for it. The cross is one of the most basic shapes you can draw, after all, it's one of the first things that children draw.

And incidentally, Kemeticism is still alive and well with some small number of people (not just the re-constructionists either), so be careful when you label it as mythology (unless you're referring to all religions in general, of course).




Young_Pioneer

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#15 13 years ago
Mr. Mattit's a very popular religious symbol. I would have thought that it was more likely that Christians would have adopted the cross from the Celts of Europe, who also used a form of the cross extensively in their symbolism (you can see them frequently in Celtic monuments all over Britain), but there are many other possible sources for it.

Yes, nevertheless most of these famous monuments (especially the grave stones) were built in Medieval (Christian) times. But you are right, the Celtic sun stone had already existed before Christendom.

On the other hand, Christianity did not exactly spread out from Northern/Western Europe...




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#16 13 years ago

No, Celtic monuments were built by the Celts, hence their name. It is true that the symbol was copied throughout Medieval times, but I wasn't referring to those (although the use of the Celtic cross and other Celtic symbols even after the Celts were driven out of England/Europe shows just how a strong an influence it had).




Young_Pioneer

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#17 13 years ago

OK, maybe I have misunderstood your post. But what famous Celtic monuments with a Celtic cross are you referring to? I agree that the Celtic cross may have helped adopting the new religion and its resembling symbol. But there is no evidence linking both.




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#18 13 years ago
Young_PioneerOK, maybe I have misunderstood your post. But what famous Celtic monuments with a Celtic cross are you referring to? I agree that the Celtic cross may have helped adopting the new religion and its resembling symbol. But there is no evidence linking both.

Many of the standing stones across Britain were originally established by the Celts, particularly those found in Wales, Scotland and Northern England. Many of them were destroyed by Christians, others were 'Christianised'. If you live close to the Welsh border you begin to see a lot more of them.

And, I never said there was any evidence, I just said that it was what I thought, that it seemed more likely to me, is all.




Young_Pioneer

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#19 13 years ago

Mr. MattMany of the standing stones across Britain were originally established by the Celts, particularly those found in Wales, Scotland and Northern England. Many of them were destroyed by Christians, others were 'Christianised'. If you live close to the Welsh border you begin to see a lot more of them.[/quote]OK, now I see what you are referring to :).

[quote=Mr. Matt]And, I never said there was any evidence, I just said that it was what I thought, that it seemed more likely to me, is all.

Calm down, I didn't claim the opposite...




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#20 13 years ago

Young_PioneerOK, now I see what you are referring to :).

Calm down, I didn't claim the opposite...

I didn't know that I wasn't being calm... :confused:

I HATE YOU! I'M GOING TO KILL YOU! AND YOUR FAMILY! THEN I'LL BATHE IN YOUR BLOOD!!!!!!111

See, perfectly calm?