Equality and Violence 18 replies

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Nordicvs VIP Member

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#1 13 years ago

[color=black]Many years ago a friend of mine brought up an issue of violence in three of his previous relationships (in one of them, she would slap him, even kick him sometimes, and he didn't hit back or even report it; another, was mostly a lot of shoving and shouting, with an occasional violent outburst from his girfriend...again, he never fought back, tried to make peace every time, and said nothing to anyone; the last one was far worse: punching, hitting, and then she stalked him for five month after he finally broke up with her--this time he did call the police but was not really taken seriously, and eventually she found a new boyfriend to torment.[/color]

[color=black]At the time, I thought the way most guys do--I thought he was a wuss. "Guys are tough and can take this shit, no need to whine about it." I was younger at the time and hadn't been in that many relationships myself, and I was raised to respect women no matter what--to not hit them and not fight back if they try to hit me. And I immediately looked at his abusive relationships with disgust--it was obvious that he had done something to provoke them and he probably deserved it. When he suggested that women were just as violent as men, I laughed out loud.[/color]

[color=black]But over the years, I've stopped laughing, and have studied this a bit more seriously. I realize that my reaction was based on stereotypes and what is socially acceptable in society--if a female friend came to me and told me of physical violence, I'd probably believe her without question and not think that she "had it coming" or provoked the assault in some way...which is what I did with that friend above--men hitting women is not acceptable...but a woman hitting a guy, well, it's easily forgiven and hell, let's face it, it makes us laugh; repeatedly in TV programs, movies, even commercials, we see female violence depicted to encourage a humorous response in the viewer. Most of the time, it succeeds. What does this demonstrate to young girls who watch it? Obviously, that violence is okay for them.[/color]

[color=black]Pop culture and sensationalist media attention has us believe that men are of course more violent than women. Of course. It's something most of us agree with without a moment's thought--most of the reports indicate that men are beating up women all over the place, and there's hardly any reports of females doing this. Or are there?[/color]

[color=black]Even though most men will never report abuse from a female (as with the case with my friend, he didn't want his male peers to make fun of him, so he kept his mouth shut), the statistics and trends I found were shocking.[/color]

[color=black]1. Women are three times more likely than men to use weapons in spousal violence. [/color]

[color=black]2. Women initiate most incidents of spousal violence. [/color]

[color=black]3. Women commit most child abuse and most elder abuse. [/color]

[color=black]4. Women hit their male children more frequently and more severely than they hit their female children. [/color]

[color=black]5. Women commit most child murders and 64% of their victims are male children. [/color]

[color=black]6. When women murder adults the majority of their victims are men. [/color]

[color=black]7. Women commit 52% of spousal killings and are convicted of 41% of spousal murders. [/color]

[color=black]8. Women commit most child abuse in intact biological families. When the man is removed from the family the children are at greater risk. Mother-only households are more dangerous to children than father-only households.[/color]

[color=black]9. Children are 3 times more likely to be fatally abused in Mother-only households than in Father-only households, and many times more likely in households where the mother cohabits with a man other than the biological father.[/color]

[color=black]10. Children raised in Single-mother Households are 8 times more likely to become killers than children raised with their biological father.[/color]

[color=black]11. 82% percent of the general population had their first experience of violence at the hands of women. [/color]

[color=black]http://www.kern-home.de/deutsch/gewalt2.htm[/color] [color=black][/color] [color=black]http://www.bein.com/fathers/articles/female_violence_facts.html[/color] [color=black]If men and women are to be truly equal, then I think both have to be responsible and be held responsible for violence against one another; and this site--[/color] [color=black]http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/domesticviolence.html[/color] [color=black]--says it best: "There's NO excuse for domestic violence--not matter what sex you are."[/color] [color=black]Your (mature, intelligent) opinions?[/color]




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#2 13 years ago

My dads first wife was a nut, and she tried on multiple occasions to stab my dad. My dad never did anything back. It goes both ways. Generally though, men who hit women are cowardly pussies who do so to feel power. These men usually have rape fantasies. These men are also a minority. They are the people you see sometimes on cops. Some men who hit their wives or girlfriends are in my opinion, perfectly justified to do so. Usually self defense. But there are plenty of sleezebags out there.




Truce

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#3 13 years ago

I grew up living with only my mother and sister... I guess I'm lucky to be alive, heh. That is surprising, though, and I certainly haven't heard anything like this before. I've actually seen a ton of stuff about counsellors to talk to and such when you're a woman being abused by your male partner, but I can't recall anything about this. Men should swallow their pride, perhaps.




MrFancypants Forum Admin

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#4 13 years ago

I don't think the rule "men are more agressive than women" is just a stereotype. How often do you see fights on the street where women are involved? Over here it's mostly men who like to provoke fights and most women I know despise violence. This difference seems to result from different education and levels of testosteron if you ask me.

That women in a relationship are more likely to go nuts doesn't surprise me with them doing most of the work in a household in many cases.




Phoenix_22 VIP Member

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#5 13 years ago

Well, men hitting women isn't a good quality, i don't even think it is acceptable. You don't hit a woman, but if she's beating the shit out of you, then i think it still should be realized. For one, men who are raped by women at a younger age rarely disclose it, even though they have as horrible a life as any other person who was raped. Anyone who has a wife or girlfriend that is abusive seem to get their stories pushed away because men are supposed to take it, or they aren't the ones that are the victims, but rather the attackers. The trends that you pointed out i've suspected but never had any proof:

[color=black]1. Women are three times more likely than men to use weapons in spousal violence.

Probably a power thing, they feel that they can control the other by using dangerous objects that give them an advantage.[/color] [color=black]

3. Women commit most child abuse and most elder abuse.

Interesting, but it makes sense. For one, women are usually with children or elders more than men, if they get pissed, they will take action. Or if they get lazy, then they will neglect who they are caring for.[/color] [color=black]

4. Women hit their male children more frequently and more severely than they hit their female children.

I didn't have this happen to me, but i saw a prime example growing up, my best friend who get spanked and slapped a whole lot more than his sister, even though his sister did alot more bad or stupid things.[/color] [color=black]

7. Women commit 52% of spousal killings and are convicted of 41% of spousal murders.

wow...that's shocking.[/color] [color=black]

8. Women commit most child abuse in intact biological families. When the man is removed from the family the children are at greater risk. Mother-only households are more dangerous to children than father-only households.

I think this is due to stress, women seem to get more violent with stress and could take it out on their children.[/color] [color=black]

11. 82% percent of the general population had their first experience of violence at the hands of women. [/color]

I bet you that percentile is even higher. I think that most everyone has experienced it. From grade school girls that start kicking you, to abusive spouses. Really the problem is that the sterotypes towards men and women are that men are more abusive and violent than women and that men can take supposed "abuse" from women.

i[color=black]f men and women are to be truly equal, then I think both have to be responsible and be held responsible for violence against one another;[/color]

:gpost: Exactly what i was going to say.




Nordicvs VIP Member

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#6 13 years ago
X-CMy dads first wife was a nut, and she tried on multiple occasions to stab my dad.[/quote] So was my dad's first wife--she didn't try to stab him, just tried to squash him under a sofa.
My dad never did anything back. It goes both ways. Generally though, men who hit women are cowardly pussies who do so to feel power. These men usually have rape fantasies.
Many women have those too. There is a difference between fantasizing about it and acting it out, although.
These men are also a minority. They are the people you see sometimes on cops. Some men who hit their wives or girlfriends are in my opinion, perfectly justified to do so. Usually self defense. But there are plenty of sleezebags out there.
True. Last summer I stayed with a friend up North, with her sister, who kicked her boyfriend out because he had beaten her up. I recall feeling really sorry for her...then I got to know her a little: she was in two fights with other women that I witnessed in the living room of the place; she treated her daughter like shit, but I never saw her hit the girl. Anyway, later, she admitted that she started the fight with her boyfriend, poking at him, pushing him, then began to hit him--so he punched her a couple of times and left. And he's still in jail for that, I hear.
TruceMen should swallow their pride, perhaps.
If society is to be equal, then both males and females should swallow their pride--or perhaps both men and women should stop hitting each other. [quote=MrFancyPants]I don't think the rule "men are more agressive than women" is just a stereotype. How often do you see fights on the street where women are involved?

I've seen just as many females fighting as guys fighting, actually. Three nights ago there were three drunken girls screaming and beating on each other in the parking lot behind my building. Anyway, that's why statistics take into account varied sources from many communities--anecdotal evidence is hardly evidence.

Over here it's mostly men who like to provoke fights and most women I know despise violence. This difference seems to result from different education and levels of testosteron if you ask me.

What does an inability to control one's temper have to do with hormones? What does the fact that it's okay for women to hit men have to do with testosterone or the lack of it?

That women in a relationship are more likely to go nuts doesn't surprise me with them doing most of the work in a household in many cases.

You're making excuses for women hitting their kids or their husbands?--because the vacuum cleaner broke down? Or she forgot to buy batteries for the remote control? First, 1950 civilization aside, there's not that large a percentage of women who only work at home, and who must do all the work. Second, with today's technology, women who are stay-home mothers have it far, far easier than their parents ever did. Third, men help out around the house much more than they ever did before. So, how much stress is really there to cause a mental breakdown resulting in rage manifested as violence towards another person? Also, if a guy works at home and looks after the kids while his wife goes out to a job, does this give him the right to go insane or beat his family? --50% of domestic violence is reciprocal, such as pushing and shoving, mutual screaming and threatening etc. There is no victim and no clear initiator.

--20% of domestic violence is male initiated.

--30% of domestic violence is female initiated. http://www.respectyourman.org/Violence_start.asp




Truce

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#7 13 years ago
NordicvsIf society is to be equal, then both males and females should swallow their pride--or perhaps both men and women should stop hitting each other.

Haha... Yes, true. That would probably help a bit.




Strelok16

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#8 13 years ago
MrFancypantsI don't think the rule "men are more agressive than women" is just a stereotype. How often do you see fights on the street where women are involved? Over here it's mostly men who like to provoke fights and most women I know despise violence. This difference seems to result from different education and levels of testosteron if you ask me. That women in a relationship are more likely to go nuts doesn't surprise me with them doing most of the work in a household in many cases.

I think thats pretty much right, its just nature, men are just wired to be more agressive.




MrFancypants Forum Admin

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#9 13 years ago

Nordicvs I've seen just as many females fighting as guys fighting, actually. Three nights ago there were three drunken girls screaming and beating on each other in the parking lot behind my building.

Anyway, that's why statistics take into account varied sources from many communities--anecdotal evidence is hardly evidence.

I am sure that a survey conducted among those people I know with the same question would show that men really get into fights more often.

What does an inability to control one's temper have to do with hormones? What does the fact that it's okay for women to hit men have to do with testosterone or the lack of it?

I didn't say that it is ok for women to hit men. I also didn't say that testosterone activates an ability to control one's temper. A hormone itself doesn't trigger a behaviour it only makes it more probable that it is triggered (as far as I know). This together with the difference in upbringing (society always expected men to be more aggressive)

You're making excuses for women hitting their kids or their husbands?--because the vacuum cleaner broke down? Or she forgot to buy batteries for the remote control? First, 1950 civilization aside, there's not that large a percentage of women who only work at home, and who must do all the work. Second, with today's technology, women who are stay-home mothers have it far, far easier than their parents ever did. Third, men help out around the house much more than they ever did before. So, how much stress is really there to cause a mental breakdown resulting in rage manifested as violence towards another person? Also, if a guy works at home and looks after the kids while his wife goes out to a job, does this give him the right to go insane or beat his family? --50% of domestic violence is reciprocal, such as pushing and shoving, mutual screaming and threatening etc. There is no victim and no clear initiator.

--20% of domestic violence is male initiated.

--30% of domestic violence is female initiated. http://www.respectyourman.org/Violence_start.asp

I wasn't making excuses for women to hit anyone. Please try to answer to what I wrote and not to what you think I could have meant.

It is true that more and more men are doing their share of work in the household but obviously this is not the case in all households. This depends on the country you are talking about, the age of the family, religion, traditions etc. What do you want to prove with your statistics? How do you explain that women contribute more to domestic violence, especially if you regard their contribution to overall-violence? If it's not their position in the household that makes them go crazy what then? Is your point that hitting women is ok because they contribute 10% more to domestic violence in a questionalbe (is it just me or does www.respectyourman.org sound a little bit biased?) statistic?

It's not difficult to find some kind of statistic that proves whatever point you may think about. I found this after googling for about 10 seconds:

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90 - 95% of domestic violence victims are women. Bureau of Justice Statistics Selected Findings: Violence Between Intimates (NCJ-149259), November 1994.

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as many as 95% of domestic violence perpetrators are male. A Report of the Violence against Women Research Strategic Planning Workshop sponsored by the National Institute of Justice in cooperation with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 1995.

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much of female violence is committed in self-defense, and inflicts less injury than male violence. Chalk & King, eds., Violence in Families: Assessing Prevention & Treatment Programs, National Resource Council and Institute of Medicine, p. 42 (1998).

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during 1992-1993, women were 6 times more likely to experience violence by an intimate partner than men. Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report: Violence Against Women: Estimates from the Redesigned Survey (NCJ-154348), August 1995, p. 1.

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the chance of being victimized by an intimate is 10 times greater for a woman than a man. Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report: National Crime Victimization Survey, Violence Against Women, 1994.

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70% of intimate homicide victims are female. Bureau of Justice Statistics Selected Findings: Violence Between Intimates (NCJ-149259), November 1994.

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male perpetrators are 4 times more likely to use lethal violence than females. Florida Governor's Task Force on Domestic and Sexual Violence, Florida Mortality Review Project, 1997, p.44, table 7 source: http://www.dccadv.org/statistics.htm




Briareos

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#10 13 years ago

I've heard this before. It would be interesting to see where the statistics came from and what the criteria were, although I don't really doubt the numbers. I feel that the women using weapons in domestic disputes was simply to counter their -- on average -- smaller frame and musculature. My awakening came when I saw my first “powder-puff” football game in HS. It was flag-football, but it was far more violent than any full-contact-rules game I've ever seen in person. Many players were expelled from the game and there were more than a few injuries. They were in it for blood, rules be damned. I would say that, in general, stereotypes are very damaging in our attempts to understand and communicate between the sexes. All they seem to do most of the time is obscure the truth under peer pressure. What does the junk phrase “Be a man!” mean anyhow?




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