GF is my bext friend *hugs GF*
21st February 2004
I still feel that owning a gun gives me some power against a person who is a threat to my life, or my loved ones lives. Until there are no more of those people who want to kill people, and hurt people, the Gun will be a very effective tool for defense. And after those bad people are gone (which will never happen), shooting will still be a great sport.
1st of all target shooting is already a great sport. i mean heck, they even do it in the olympics. personally, i enjoy shooting my .22 rifle, and its not like i'm shooting anyone. Also, firearms WILL NEVER stop being used. 1. criminals will always get they're hands on them even if the government tries to get rid of them. 2. if the government gets rid of our guns, we are screwed and would be very susceptible to terrorism or susceptible to any other country that wants a piece of us. 3. you would have so much rebellion if the above happened( the government getting rid of guns). people already protest the governments outlawing of certain guns. Just to clarify, i'm not saying that people don't die from guns, i'm just saying its inevitable and if we outlaw guns, then they'll be used by criminals even more often.
We'll just have more stabbings if/when guns are eventually outlawed. But like the saying goes, "If you want my guns, you can have my bullets first." :naughty:
WiseBoboThe amount of times I have had to argue the 2nd Amendment on this forum is beginning to make my fingers bleed. I know perfectly well what you were saying, I just choose not to go into detail because frankly if you don't care to look up the facts about guns before arguing about them, you're a waste of my time, and that goes for anyone in here looking for a good debate. If you want statistics, I've got them. If you want facts from studies by the government, such as the U.S. Department of Justice, I've got them. I've got pages and pages of this shit, but you go ahead and continue your uneducated babble and get along with the other forum members here, I won't stop you.
You're so fucking putting words in my mouth. Stop it! You're pissing me off. No, you made a HUGE assumption about my statement, probably based on your dealings with others here. I said that today, someone owning a gun to protect themselves from the US government is a silly excuse, today -- right now. Nowhere did I say that the constitution or the bill of rights should be changed. Nowhere did I even suggest that (in the statements you replied to) that rights should be changed or removed. In the future things in the US could very well crumble, and through some drastic change we could be faced with a situation that would call for the right to bear arms in the very way that the founding fathers intended. The beginning of that potential catastrophie may very well start with the outlawing of gun ownership for citizens. But right now we just have small groups (Waco, TX for example) and individuals who are paranoid, and very likely crazy, who would rather shoot it out with the governement, and in the end die, than face the courts for their alleged crimes. I have done some research (and thus have totally stopped arguing against hand guns, or any type of gun ban aside from owership by convicted criminals). My biggest fear that keeps me from owning a gun is that one of my kids, or kid's friends, might get ahold of my gun and have an accident. However, it turns out that people tend to be horrid risk assesers, myself included, without doing research. We focus on rare and highly publicised events instead of seeing the real risks around us. For example an accidental gun killing of a family member is 100 times less likely than a child in the same family drowning in the back yard pool. I am not arguing against you. Your logic stumbled on assumption.
BriareosBut right now we just have small groups (Waco, TX for example) and individuals who are paranoid, and very likely crazy, who would rather shoot it out with the governement, and in the end die, than face the courts for their alleged crimes.[/QUOTE]I was seriously contemplating your points until you started with this. There was no reason for the government to storm the place at all. The people there didn't commit any crimes like you imply. They saw Army tanks ramming holes into the side of the compound, freaked out, and lit the place ablaze. Janet Reno, Wesley Clark, and Bill Clinton screwed up - big time. That has nothing to do with the gun argument. All the guns they owned were legal. [QUOTE=Briareos]My biggest fear that keeps me from owning a gun is that one of my kids, or kid's friends, might get ahold of my gun and have an accident.
Don't leave your loaded gun in the toy chest and I don't think you'll have any problems.
BriareosYou're so fucking putting words in my mouth. Stop it! You're pissing me off. No, you made a HUGE assumption about my statement, probably based on your dealings with others here. .... I am not arguing against you. Your logic stumbled on assumption.[/QUOTE] [Quote=Briareos]But to use that excuse today is nonsense. (I'm not saying that means that guns should be banned.)
Tap112Don't leave your loaded gun in the toy chest and I don't think you'll have any problems.
Yeah, it's easy enough for me to understand, so nobody here should have a problem understanding it...
This is one of those issues that everyone has made up their mind on. It doesn't matter which side of this issue you're on. No one is completely right or wrong but, you have to get to a point where you just agree to disagree.
Voice of joy and sunshine
26th May 2003
Briareos I said that today, someone owning a gun to protect themselves from the US government is a silly excuse, today -- right now.
The presence of those arms is enough to protect you from the government in most cases. Today -- right now thousands of citizens are using guns to protect their freedoms, not by going into the street and shooting dead all representatives of the government; but by having the capability to refuse the orders of that government if they wished to. It is true, that far more important than the presence of a gun is the will to back it up, that infamous "From my cold dead hand" statement, but applied across all the great freedoms we enjoy. Yet a gun is a tool and I would have those tools for what little protection they provide in the 'right now' and hope that people are willing to back it up at some point. I know most of them won't be willing to fight when push comes to shove, people are mostly cowards, but the few that are deserve the chance to go down swinging.
All governments ultimately enforce their decisions by force of arms; by having a gun you are at least in some part protecting yourself from their decisions if they go somewhere you don't like. If you have the will to back it up you have an even greater protection. If somehow we can spread that will, or if people are more steadfast than I believe, then we not only are protected we are protected so well as to be almost invincible to home-grown tyranny. But either way the will counts for nothing if you've no way to project it, and that's something guns can be, a tool that enables a will which preserves freedoms. You don't have to go out and crusade against the government with your gun in the here and now for it to be protecting your freedom, but if you have a gun it protects it a bit, and if you're willing to use it to protect your freedoms if you had to then all the better. Right now guns are helping to protect freedoms, not a lot, just a little. But it's worth it. If someone claims their gun is to protect them from the government then it is, it protects them and their freedoms. Whether they claim it for that purpose or not it is in some small part doing so.
I think you should be, or shop keepers and people like that at least because if their shop gets held up they can always shoot them, and they shouldnt get chaarged for it