French magazine bombed by extremists 70 replies

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MrFancypants Forum Admin

The Bad

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7th December 2003

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#1 7 years ago

apparently they depicted Mohammed on the cover of one of their issues and made fun of Islam, so extremists hacked their website and destroyed their offices. Noone was hurt though. BBC News - French satirical paper Charlie Hebdo attacked in Paris

What do you think about this? Is it needlessly provocative to make fun of a religion? Or should more people intentionally break religious rules in order to reaffirm freedom of speech?




Asheekay

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#2 7 years ago

The incident is indeed a sad one but neither party can be declared innocent.

As for the freedom of speech ... well ... there are parts of the world where its illegal to discuss holocaust or question the severity of the incident. Its so strange to talk about Muslims not bearing with their holy personalities being sketched in graphics and this be declared against the spirit of freedom of speech and no word be said about the law forbidding the discussion of holocaust.

If there be respect for people's ideologies and beliefs by not displaying graphically their respected figures, let it be available to all. And if everything and everyone be allowed to criticism then there ought to be no exclusion in the case of holocaust.




Emperor Benedictine

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#3 7 years ago

Well the assumption that people who believe in free speech are in favour of laws against holocaust denial is just that, an assumption. It should go without saying that non-religious people do not have to obey religious dictates. Actually, it already does go without saying for the majority of religions, the only question is whether we allow ourselves to be bullied into thinking Islam should be any different. People who who think that it should not be different need to have the courage of their convictions and not fall into the trap of self-censorship. These terrorist threats are idiotic as they only serve to make the point even more clear that it's not religious people who need to be protected from secularists, but the other way around.




Crazy Wolf VIP Member

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#4 7 years ago

Freedom of speech is more important. Idiot extremists should not dictate the lives of everyone else.




Asheekay

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#5 7 years ago
Emperor Benedictine;5580400Well the assumption that people who believe in free speech are in favour of laws against holocaust denial is just that, an assumption.

What?

Plus, if you find documents containing critical information about your country's military secrets ... will you and SHOULD you be allowed to reveal the information contained in them just because there ought to be freedom of speech?




Emperor Benedictine

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#6 7 years ago
Asheekay;5580452What?

I thought it was straightforward enough. The fact that holocaust denial is illegal in a few countries doesn't imply some kind of double standard among people who really believe in free speech.

Plus, if you find documents containing critical information about your country's military secrets ... will you and SHOULD you be allowed to reveal the information contained in them just because there ought to be freedom of speech?

It's not my job to keep state secrets. What does it have to do with anything? Is Islam the state I choose to live in under condition of obeying its laws? I think not.




Asheekay

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#7 7 years ago

True. So banning to speak about holocaust is NOT against freedom of communication and protesting against dishonoring images/graphics in some magazine IS against the freedom of communication.

And its not double standards either ... absolutely agreed, sir!

Yes .. so if you find YOUR state secrets, will YOUR state sue you if you leak them just because of freedom of communication?




Emperor Benedictine

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#8 7 years ago
Asheekay;5580489True. So banning to speak about holocaust is NOT against freedom of communication and protesting against dishonoring images/graphics in some magazine IS against the freedom of communication. And its not double standards either ... absolutely agreed, sir!

...No, I'm saying it is a double standard, but not one that I hold, as I'm not in favour of censoring or holocaust deniers.

Yes .. so if you find YOUR state secrets, will YOUR state sue you if you leak them just because of freedom of communication?

And YOUR religion condemns you if you break its rules... why should I care? You're the one choosing to follow it, not me.




Crazy Wolf VIP Member

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#9 7 years ago
Asheekay;5580489True. So banning to speak about holocaust is NOT against freedom of communication

Holocaust denial is rarely simply a rejection of the recorded history(History recorded by the victims, the perpetrators, and the people who defeated the perpetrators. There has never been more consistent accounts of a major historical event). It is usually involved in hate speech, which is a touchy subject, especially when it's hate speech against a population that lost 66% of its members within recent memory to a group that started off with "hate speech".

and protesting against dishonoring images/graphics in some magazine IS against the freedom of communication.

Dishonor is not the same thing as hate speech. No violence was advocated. And the response to this mockery wasn't protesting, it was a bomb. That's rather out of hand, wouldn't you say? If I was offended by something you did, would it be reasonable for me to bomb your home?

And its not double standards either ... absolutely agreed, sir!

Good to know we agree! :nodding:

Yes .. so if you find YOUR state secrets, will YOUR state sue you if you leak them just because of freedom of communication?

Generally they'll bring some charge about treason or threatening state security, despite the law permitting this being fairly contested in the USA. Honestly, if the security organizations are operating properly, there shouldn't be any leaks of state secrets, and any leaks that become public are proof of a weakness in the security measures.




Crusader

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#10 7 years ago
Asheekay;5580359The incident is indeed a sad one but neither party can be declared innocent..

yeah drawing cartoons is as bad as planting a bomb....