Having Children/Abortions 24 replies

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Schofield VIP Member

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#1 5 years ago

So two of my friends went at it a few months ago when they were drunk, no protection was used. So here we are, the girl is pregnant and does not want an abortion.

I'm wondering though, why do men not have the option of 'abortion'? Obviously they can't have the specimen neutralised as it isn't in their own body, but why don't us men have the ability to opt-out of parenthood, when women do? They may carry the baby, but only for about 9 months, the thing will still exist for decades to come.

It seems really unfair to me; it takes two to reproduce, if one idiot didn't use protection, neither did. How many different ways are there for women to avoid pregnancy anyway? Hell, there's dozens of pills, there are vaginal rings, diaphragms, intrauterine devices, etc. There are so many ways for women to avoid their own pregnancy even after an accidental (or not) unprotected sex session.

So the women hold all the power: if they don't want an abortion, the male better have a large sum of money and access to a good lawyer, because that's the only way he's able to get out of 20 years of child support.

Either make abortion illegal, or give the aborting option to both parties - makes sense right? I'm completely aware that abortion isn't the easiest thing to decide, but at least the decision is there for the girl. Men don't really have one. Our mistake is seemingly irreversible, the fate is left up to somebody else.

I'm kinda ranting, as the guy is quite literally screwed for the next decade or two; I hope you get a high paying job or win the lottery, man!




Andron Taps Forum Mod

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#2 5 years ago

I agree, but you pretty much said it: because women have the uterus. I also think it is unfair that the father has to pay child-support.

EDIT: Just saw this:

115797.jpg


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



Mastershroom VIP Member

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#3 5 years ago

The system definitely needs some work. Given that men can't really make the abortion decision, we should at least be able to sign away our parental rights and responsibilities. Obviously that cuts two ways; on the one hand, no child support, but on the other, no rights to custody/visitation or anything like that (unless voluntarily allowed by the mother).

Obviously, gender politics can never be truly neutral as long as our genders are physically biologically different, but some aspects of it are just insane, particularly with regards to domestic violence and alimony/child support. I don't have the source on me right now, but I read an article the other day about a man who was raped by a woman much older than him who ended up getting pregnant...the dude ended up having to pay child support. Obviously that's a pretty extreme example, but the fact that shit like that can even happen is nuts.




Andron Taps Forum Mod

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#4 5 years ago
Mastershroom;5704408 but on the other, no rights to custody/visitation or anything like that (unless voluntarily allowed by the mother).

If the father doesn't want the kid badly enough to keep it, I doubt he'd care =p

At least that's how I look at it.


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#5 5 years ago

Fortunately, there is - I believe - active research into a wide range of male contraceptives.

That said, if you want to get really pissed off, read about presumptive fatherhood. If a woman living with you is unfaithful and conceives a kid, you're still liable for the child - even if you have bugger all to do with raising it. Now I could see the argument if the child got to 10 and you discovered it wasn't your kid, because you have a relationship there, you owe the kid. But that you're still liable even if you have nothing to do with raising it... very wrong.

The abortion thing is... well, preg rate with condoms used perfectly is 2% a year, so it's certainly possible. But that's the risk you take. And if you're purely relying on the girl to have taken care of things, that's just ... really stupid. You know that (some) women screw men over - we're all aware of it, we've seen the warning signs that you're potentially going to get trapped by someone careless or hostile.

Of course mistakes shouldn't cost someone everything they have, but... frequently they do. You can't just go and kill the thing in someone else's body* - that's ... as bad as rape in my way of thinking. Once the thing's there I don't think the man has the right to dictate it be killed. Or to give up the duty of financially supporting it once it's born - you knew the risk when you decided to sleep with her. I don't think the woman should be able to give up the duty of financially supporting it once it's born either, mind you.

And I agree that laws concerning who's liable to end up being paid child support are massively unequal and abusive. But still, you did sleep with her, and if you don't pay for it then the state's going to have to. I didn't even sleep with her, I don't see why I should pay for your kid. I don't really think the rest of us should have to cover a careless nookie tax.

[SIZE="1"]* I've actually heard stories, no idea how accurate, that they used to do that to slaves in America - cut babies out of pregnant women and stomp them to death in front of the others to terrify them into obedience.[/SIZE]




Schofield VIP Member

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#6 5 years ago
Adrian Ţepeş;5704405I agree, but you pretty much said it: because women have the uterus. I also think it is unfair that the father has to pay child-support.

I think it's unfair that the father has practically no way of fighting child support. The woman has to pay too, but it's completely her choice (having the child, I mean). Men definitely aren't a victim, like a lot of guys seem to think we are, but we're definitely treated as inferior in the whole process.

I hate when you can't put your thoughts into words, I have some good things to say... =p




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#7 5 years ago

:moved:

to the Pub.


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



Emperor Benedictine

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#8 5 years ago
Nemmerle;5704411And I agree that laws concerning who's liable to end up being paid child support are massively unequal and abusive. But still, you did sleep with her, and if you don't pay for it then the state's going to have to. I didn't even sleep with her, I don't see why I should pay for your kid. I don't really think the rest of us should have to cover a careless nookie tax.

Aren't taxpayer-funded abortions the same thing? If a certain level of responsibility is expected of me, why should I have to pay so that women don't bear the same responsibility?




Andron Taps Forum Mod

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#9 5 years ago
Nemmerle;5704411And I agree that laws concerning who's liable to end up being paid child support are massively unequal and abusive. But still, you did sleep with her, and if you don't pay for it then the state's going to have to. I didn't even sleep with her, I don't see why I should pay for your kid. I don't really think the rest of us should have to cover a careless nookie tax..

Assuming it WAS careless. Basically, anyone who has sex is fucked.

Mmm...so to speak :p

EDIT: Well, I'm actually ok with this, but you all know how I feel about having kids.


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



Schofield VIP Member

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#10 5 years ago
Adrian Ţepeş;5704449Basically, anyone who has sex is fucked.

Well now that the obvious has been taken care of... =p

Why was this moved to the pub?