Human rights were made by liberals for liberals... 196 replies

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Mephistopheles

IME and myself

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27th December 2004

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#1 13 years ago

Human rights were made by liberal pussies for liberal pussies... After reading some recent posts I have come to the conclusion that some people 1. don't know what human rights are, 2. think that they don't have to care about them because they are made by "liberal UN pussies", 3. think that it is actually good to torture people and let them suffer in the most sadistic way (thus refusing human rights to at least criminals). Although there are a lot of human rights postulated by the United Nations and ratified by most democratic countries (including the USA) i only want to refer to the following articles: (You can read the complete UN Convention against Torture and Other (...) Treatment or Punishment HERE)

United Nations Convention Against Torture (ratified by the USA) Article 1 1. For the purposes of this Convention, [color=red]the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed,[/color] or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions. 2. This article is without prejudice to any international instrument or national legislation which does or may contain provisions of wider application. Article 2 1. Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction. [color=red]2.[/color] [color=red]No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political in[/color][color=red]stability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.[/color] [color=red]3. An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.[/color] Article 3 [color=red]1. No State Party shall expel, return ("refouler") or extradite a person to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture.[/color] 2. For the purpose of determining whether there are such grounds, the competent authorities shall take into account all relevant considerations including, where applicable, the existence in the State concerned of a consistent pattern of gross, flagrant or mass violations of human rights. Article 16 [color=red]1. Each State Party shall undertake to prevent in any territory under its jurisdiction other acts of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment which do not amount to torture as defined in article I,[/color] when such acts are committed by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. In particular, the obligations contained in articles 10, 11, 12 and 13 shall apply with the substitution for references to torture of references to other forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Human rights should protect citizens against their state. My question: "Do you think human rights (as postulated by the UN) are reasonable or shall we abolish them as a typical UN stillbirth?" Please follow these rules: 1. Refer to the UN human rights (possibly not your own understanding of human rights) 2. Argue (!) and discuss nicely. I would like to have this thread stay in the pub. Thanks smilie.gif. My personal opinion: Human rights are made for ALL humans. Regarding torture they should ESPECIALLY protect suspected criminals from arbitrariness/torture. But this also includes convicted criminals. Human rights don't forbid the death penalty in general as long as the perpetrator does not suffer unnecessary pain. This exception has been implemented so that even countries with a death penalty can sign these basic conventions. If you refuse to obey these very basic conventions you deny human rights in general. A country that disrespects human rights permanently should leave the UN and therefore the fellowship of civilized countries.




Nemmerle Forum Mod

Voice of joy and sunshine

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26th May 2003

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#2 13 years ago

If you define human rights as the above United Nations mandate then I do not believe in them. You see, while I may disapprove of torture I do realise that it is sometime necessary to obtain information from people by those means, however distasteful I may find the application of them.




Briareos

Show Me the Study

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9th June 2005

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#3 13 years ago

Wow. We (the US) really pissed all over those points, didn't we? Just confirms what I've thought about the way we went about things all along.




Fortune

something to believe.

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19th February 2005

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#4 13 years ago

Fuck that, the only reason the world is as screwed up as it is is because of these people who constantly "Oh hes just a Human even though he killed hundreds of people" ect, if they took someone elses life, take theirs... and Eye for an Eye.




[CoUk]niu

I take what n0e says way too seriously

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12th March 2004

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#5 13 years ago
JedihunterFuck that, the only reason the world is as screwed up as it is is because of these people who constantly "Oh hes just a Human even though he killed hundreds of people" ect, if they took someone elses life, take theirs... and Eye for an Eye.

The issue was torture,I believe.Not the death penalty.




Briareos

Show Me the Study

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9th June 2005

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#6 13 years ago
Jedihunter... and Eye for an Eye.

Keep that up and everyone's blind. How can we consider ourselves better than the terrorist if we don't hold ourselves accountable to a higher standard?




Fortune

something to believe.

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19th February 2005

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#7 13 years ago

Well if you made him blind, well pluck your eyes out too, I ca ntell you how we consider ourselves better than a Terrorist, we didnt Kill Anyone, if they killed someone... they need to get shot themselves. And Torture, depends wha tthey did... if you capture someone who used to hang out with terrorists , simpily put him in a room, with somebody, wait untill he gets really tired, make sure he doesnt get to sleep. It will eventualy get the info out of him, no food during that time neither.




Mephistopheles

IME and myself

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27th December 2004

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#8 13 years ago
NemmerleYou see, while I may disapprove of torture I do realise that it is sometime necessary to obtain information from people by those means, however distasteful I may find the application of them.

Once you cross the thin line that separates civilization from savagery you will never see that line again.




-DarthMaul-

I'm way cooler than n0e (who isn't though?)

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11th February 2003

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#9 13 years ago

Human rights should protect any one other then Terrorists.




Fortune

something to believe.

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#10 13 years ago

And Rapists and Murderers...