Humans, Naturally Good or Naturally Savage 78 replies

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freek_on_a_leesh

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15th June 2004

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#1 13 years ago

i thought this is kinda interesting to think about...especially with many of the members fascination with war, destruction, sex, and weapons...lol. Do you agree with Rousseau's "noble savage" theory, that man is born pure, but society corrupts him, or do you take the william golding view point, and say the humans are innately evil, and society trains them to be good.... Personally i tend to be able to argue both... The noble savage theory IS creditable...Take children for instance. They are fun, and care free and innocent. However, as they grow up and see the world, they become teenagers and so on and such forth. They seem to loose their innocence and such. They become more able or willing to deal harshly and put others down to survive.... However, i also tend to think, that humans are not humans. Humans are animals...not in the barabaric sense of animals...but that we are mammals, a species that has evolved greatly...Our earliest ancestors had to be tough and mean to survive...and perhaps that is an inborn sense that we get...however, religion, school, police, and bible bearing mothers weilding whips tend to get that feeling out of their minds. Children are also cruel to each other, however, they fear automatically the punishment for doing that. Perhaps we are born savage, and we learn like dogs...do something right, and we get rewarded, so something wrong, we get bad things like punishment and hurt....which naturally makes one do the things assosciated with the good... I will save some topics for the rest of you to discuss or keep in mind, i could write a bok with all my ideals and thoughts... Bear in mind....What makes a person "civilized" Be specific!




-Ghost-

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20th August 2003

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#2 13 years ago

You seem to be rather interested in human nature lately, aren't you? Humans obviously have savage instincs, as we were at one time what we would consider "animals". I suppose it could be said that we become more "civilized" as we grow, but that's sort of stretching it, as people of different age groups simply have different mind sets. A child is a lot more likely to play around then a person in their 50s. We just slowly mentally, physically, and emotionally develop, it has a little to do with how we are raised, but not that much. A kid will still go through puberty whether he's raised well or not, right? And puberty is usually a mind-altering stage as children slowly evolve into adults, and thus take on their mannerisms, and mind-set.

As to what makes a person "civilized"? I'd say it has to do with society itself. What we percieve as "civilized" typically has to do with such attributes as, being able to read, manners, proper speech, etc. Being "civilized" is just based off society, as it can change from place to place. One country could consider say, slapping each other's face to be a sign of respect, and this "civilized" behavior, whereas people of other countries see this as crazy, ignorant, and savage.

Humans want to avoid pain at all cost, it's simply human nature. The two most important goals in a human's life is to get pleasure, and avoid pain. Pain is considered bad, so it's only logical to assume that anything that brings you pain is in fact bad, right? Through this, we come up with such things as being good prevents you from getting punishment, or "pain", and has a possibility of getting you rewarded "pleasure".




WiseBobo

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9th February 2004

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#3 13 years ago

If you were to raise a child alone in isolation until early adulthood, and place that person in a situation where they feel their life may be threatened, they will surely act violently. Natural man with absolute power in which there are no checks of power will result in the abuse of that power. I truly have never heard of a benevolent dictator.




-Ghost-

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20th August 2003

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#4 13 years ago

Yes, the impacts of society, and how they are raised do affect how a person percieves the world, and reacts although just the process of growing older, along with personal experience would also influence them.




King Of Ze Whizzies

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18th March 2005

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#5 13 years ago
A child is a lot more likely to play around then a person in their 50s. We just slowly mentally, physically, and emotionally develop, it has a little to do with how we are raised, but not that much. A kid will still go through puberty whether he's raised well or not, right?

That is a load of crap. People are affected more by their surrondings and their role models (their parents). Every social group that surrounds you will affect your personality. If you hang out with bad eggs then 97% of the time you will become a bad egg. If your class is full of bad eggs than you will start acting like a bad egg in that class and slowly in every class. Anyway with the topic I feel that we are born good and the moment you hit a certain point (either puberty or high school different for each person) you either turn into a bad egg or become a responsible member of society. It usually depends on your your surrounding social groups. But there is a natural savagery in all humans. I personally love shooting other animals and other such brutal sports. But it will get worse if you reach that point and decide to become a bad egg then you will start doing bad things to people. Which is much worse in my opinion. So hopefully I didn't contradict myself. Well there is my argument. P.S. I love eggs.




Dreadnought[DK] VIP Member

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7th March 2003

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#6 13 years ago

the ideas of good and bad are arbitrary. humans have certain instincts but the rest they have to learn. it is then up to society to judge the actions of the individual person. since morals change, there is no such thing as an inherent goodness or evil.




Guest

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#7 13 years ago

id have to say that humans are born.. basically good.. but will always have the tendancy to go evil.. no matter how or where they are raised. It just always happens... i kind of agree with Freud on this one.. with the ego the super ego and the ID.. no matter how good you have things people always end up messing it up. Almost as if they were messing it up on purpose.. so i think people are born good.. but with a ton of natural lean to the dark side, which you as a human choose to follow or not.




MrFancypants Forum Admin

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7th December 2003

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#8 13 years ago

A difficult question. Anyway, what is naturally good and what is naturall bad? Most people think of themself as good, so it the answer of your question depends also on how you judge good and bad. A human has instincts some of which would can be labelled as bad by society. But a human is also capable of suppressing these instincts and replace them with morals. So I'd say that we are born neutral and from there on it depends on the person itself and society how good or bad he becomes.




Force Recon

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10th July 2004

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#9 13 years ago
So I'd say that we are born neutral and from there on it depends on the person itself and society how good or bad he becomes.

Exactly.A lot depends on the environment,the people around you, how you are treated. An innocent kid who's oppressed since birth will tend to become someone bad when he grows up.




Huffardo

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#10 13 years ago
MrFancypantsA difficult question. Anyway, what is naturally good and what is naturall bad? Most people think of themself as good, so it the answer of your question depends also on how you judge good and bad. A human has instincts some of which would can be labelled as bad by society. But a human is also capable of suppressing these instincts and replace them with morals. So I'd say that we are born neutral and from there on it depends on the person itself and society how good or bad he becomes.

That's almost exactly what I think. Neutral should be in the poll, although I already voted #2.