If you don't vote, you're a moron 69 replies

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#41 11 years ago

Jeffro;4592819Our founding fathers who created the passage "all men are created equal" were slave owners and despised the Native American population. We started on a foundation of bullshit and hypocrisy, see? You can get into the semantics of how it was a different time, but those facts remain. The sad thing is that they don't put that in your history book and conveniently leave it out. Just like they conveniently leave out the Native genocide and manifest destiny.

Therefore, that argument holds NO water.

All of that is in history books...

With the founding fathers it is just put in perspective. They were still ahead of their time, just as the Greeks weren't truly democratic, but laid the groundwork for it. You can't expect an instantaneous transformation into a totally free society.




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#42 11 years ago

Tell that to the people who voted in Florida.




Lyon

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#43 11 years ago
Metall_pingwin;4598634Think about it this way, no matter how much you hate either candidate, and whether you sit at home bitching about them or not; one of them is going to get picked. So if you ever feel like taking off your selfcentered-pants and putting on your mature-hat, do everybody a favour and don't hide in your room pretending that you're having some sort of impact.

I never said me not voting never had any impact. And if you think forcing yourself to vote just because "its your duty" and that YOU are making a huge difference yourself by voting, then you have some nerve trying to tell me to put my 'mature-hate' on.

Thanks for telling me what I already know, If I hate both candidates equally, then it makes no difference whether I vote or not, because one of them will get into office. In that instance, voting is totally pointless and anyone who just does it for the sake of doing it is a fucking drone, like yourself.

Don't try and lecture and call me selfcentred just because I don't blindly vote for a random candidate like you would.




Ipse

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#44 11 years ago

Lyon;4599033I never said me not voting never had any impact. And if you think forcing yourself to vote just because "its your duty" and that YOU are making a huge difference yourself by voting, then you have some nerve trying to tell me to put my 'mature-hate' on.

Thanks for telling me what I already know, If I hate both candidates equally, then it makes no difference whether I vote or not, because one of them will get into office. In that instance, voting is totally pointless and anyone who just does it for the sake of doing it is a fucking drone, like yourself.

Don't try and lecture and call me selfcentred just because I don't blindly vote for a random candidate like you would.

Right on the fucking nail




Metall_pingwin

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#45 11 years ago

I see you made some heavy adjustments to that post by now. I like how you changed your position there, oh well.

Lyon;4599033I never said me not voting never had any impact. And if you think forcing yourself to vote just because "its your duty" and that YOU are making a huge difference yourself by voting, then you have some nerve trying to tell me to put my 'mature-hate' on.

If I hate both candidates equally, then it makes no difference whether I vote or not.

Don't try and lecture and call me selfcentred just because I don't blindly vote for a random candidate like you would. I also wouldn't be walking around with false sense of accomplishment even if I did force myself to vote. Did you only just recently get the ability to vote, or do you feel like you matter now just because you choose to vote, you freaking drone?

There is a huge difference between voting for a random candidate, and voting for the lesser of two evils. Whether you decide to acknowledge that or not, I don't know, but it would make this a whole lot simpler. Since we're hating both candidates, surely one of them will make you more miserable than the other - common sense should dictate that you make sure that one doesn't get picked. There no such thing as 'duty to vote', it's a free country and you have every right not to vote, just please don't try to validate it with a candy coated sense of morality by saying that voting for the lesser of two evils, is still voting for an evil. Face it, Barack Obama or John McCain will be your president for the next four years, pretending it's not there isn't gonna make it go away, might as well make the best of it right?

you freaking drone?

Does being amongst the 56.4 percent of American non-voters make you feel like a free thinking rebel?




Lyon

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#46 11 years ago

Metall_pingwin;4599092I see you made some heavy adjustments to that post by now. I like how you changed your position there, oh well.

There is a huge difference between voting for a random candidate, and voting for the lesser of two evils. Whether you decide to acknowledge that or not, I don't know, but it would make this a whole lot simpler.

There isn't always a lesser of two evils, that was my point.

Since we're hating both candidates, surely one of them will make you more miserable than the other - common sense should dictate that you make sure that one doesn't get picked. There no such thing as 'duty to vote', it's a free country and you have every right not to vote, just please don't try to validate it with a candy coated sense of morality by saying that voting for the lesser of two evils, is still voting for an evil.

Morality? What? I was just justifying my reasons for not voting. I also think you should justify throwing a bitch just for because I don't share your iron headed view on voting.

Your voting for the guy that will make things suck for you slightly less than the other. What crap.

This isn't just about not voting, it's about voting or not voting, and why not voting is just is okay as voting. I won't vote if I don't like either candidate equally. If one is better, or just sucks less, then yes I will. It depends.

What you can't seem to grasp is that alot of the time neither candidate has anything to offer people that would make them chuck a vote in their direction, hence not voting is exactly the same as voting to those people.

If you feel it's so important just to vote, then go vote and keep your witless, aborted wise-cracks about non-voters to yourself! I really couldn't care less if you're gonna stick labels on me just because you think I'm wrong and you're right, and if not voting pisses people like you off then that's a bonus for people like me.

I'll either vote or I won't. I won't just vote.

Face it, Barack Obama or John McCain will be your president for the next four years, pretending it's not there isn't gonna make it go away, might as well make the best of it right?

Does being amongst the 56.4 percent of American non-voters make you feel like a free thinking rebel?

Not really, because I'm not American (thanks for noticing), and no, it doesn't make me feel any more of a rebel than the opposite makes you feel like you're important. Way to just retort the opposite at me, though. Your counter argument bulges originality.

In case you didn't notice, my argument wasn't simply about the upcoming American election.




Ipse

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#47 11 years ago

Why can't people just say something like "I will not vote because I don't want to, end of"

To me, thats just alot for simpler




Metall_pingwin

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#48 11 years ago

I don't want to do this anymore, you started making things, insulting me, and you ignore things I say. You win, there is little more infuriating than somebody who tries to be insulting and come off as the better man at the same time.

Dr. Awesome;4599145Why can't people just say something like "I will not vote because I don't want to, end of"

To me, thats just alot for simpler

Agreed.




Lyon

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#49 11 years ago

Metall_pingwin;4599153I don't want to do this anymore, you started making things, insulting me, and you ignore things I say. You win, there is little more infuriating than somebody who tries to be insulting and come off as the better man at the same time.

Agreed.

Funny you say that when your first response to me was what you just described. Must become a crime when you feel like you're on the receiving end.

How does it feel?




Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#50 11 years ago

Freedom does not begin and end with party based democracy.

Behind door A you have something, behind door B you have something. Choose. Door A or door B?

What's that you chose door A? Wow you chose to have your family raped to death, well done there. What's that you chose door B? Wow you chose to have your little sister tortured in front of you. Free choice rocks! Wooo go democracy!

Your choice is anything but free and without enough information even that restrained choice has no more worth than flipping a coin. Those two facts are the underlying flaw both with the current Western incarnation of democracy and with human nature.

If I was up there trying to get elected do you honestly think for a moment that I'd tell you what I really thought? If you do you're a moron. I'd tell you what was going to get me elected and gloss over or lie about anything that was going to run contrary to that. And against an honest candidate, not that there is such a thing, I'd win - wouldn't even be a challenge. While he was up there telling you that America brought 9/11 upon itself and things of that ilk I'd be up there telling you that the evil Jihadists hate America and we're a shinning beacon of hope in the world. And people would vote for me.

People like being lied to, if you tell them the truth, that they may have to live through some difficult times or their foriegn policy may be responsible for them being attacked or even that you don't believe in god then they have to deal with a world in which something other than themselves and what they'd like to be exists. Most people don't like that world, they'd prefer to believe in a gentler world where leaders have the continuing best intentions towards their subjects, where hard times can be avoided and where they're not truly responsible for any attacks against them. They invent foreign monsters to make their own monstrosity seem less, they worship gods to enforce a sense of morality or provide comfort for values they cannot develop on their own and if you try and take that fantasy away from them, make them deal with a harsher more practical world they run to whomever will sell them another fantasy. So preferring to believe the lie, they sell their vote to whomever is the best at holding them when they get scared, whoever will sell them their latest monster support their god and tell them everything will be alright.

And if some people move against that, refuse to purchase the fantasy and pretend that they’ve been given a meaningful choice then they will cheer for whatever two bit jester will speak of a duty to do so.

Politicians caught on to this a long time ago, tell people they're in for a shit ride with you and they'll go to someone else, tell people you'll make everything better and fight that evil thing out there and they'll run screaming into your arms. Make no mistake: Shit floats to the top.

You know who I'd vote for if I had a free vote? Me. The only person I honestly trust to lead the country to a better future. Failing that I'd vote for one of my friends, then one of my teachers, then relatives, and so on in terms of who I know best, and last of all politicians who I know not at all.

To say that democracy is an expression of your freedom of choice stems from propaganda more than a rational assessment of the facts. Your choice is anything but free. You don't know what a candidate stands for and there are many good reasons to suppose that they are lying. Hell even if we entertain for a moment that you could know what he stands for now you've no way of knowing whether that's going to be the case in an hour a day a week or a month from now.

Freedom does not begin and end with party-based democracy. Your choice, freedoms and politics do not end with election day. That is no real choice and there are many other far more practical ways in which we can influence our world and enforce our ideals. Personally I intend to join the police force and fight for the ideas of justice and peace that I believe in – I will live my morals and fight for my freedoms and yours if you’re ever within my jurisdiction. And if you say I’ve no right to complain, no freedoms or voice to use simply because I do not vote, then at least bear in mind that I’ve made a choice, I’m exercising it within a society, those are my freedoms because I make them, not because they’re given to me on a silver platter with a nice bed time story in my nice comfy cage. You too could make a morally meaningful choice if you wanted to – I’m not saying everyone should go out and become a policeman but if you really believe these things then live them, don’t just be content with the fantasy you’re sold.