If you don't vote, you're a moron 69 replies

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homo sine domino

 

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#51 11 years ago

If you refuse to participate in and criticize a game prior to it's start, then why don't you have the right to complain afterwards?

If you agree to play, then you can hardly complain, if you lose, but why should those who refused to play not be able to complain, yet be required to accept the results?

Nemmerle;4600593Behind door A you have something, behind door B you have something. Choose. Door A or door B?

What's that you chose door A? Wow you chose to have your family raped to death, well done there. What's that you chose door B? Wow you chose to have your little sister tortured in front of you. Free choice rocks! Wooo go democracy!

:agreed




Flodgy

I'm way cooler than n0e (who isn't though?)

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#52 11 years ago

An absolutely brilliant post, once again Nem.

Does this quote remind you of something however? ;)

"People, like to invent monsters and monstrosities. Then they seem less monstrous themselves. When they get blind-drunk, cheat, steal, beat their wives, starve an old woman, when they kill a trapped fox with an axe or riddle the last existing unicorn with arrows, they like to think that the Bane entering cottages at daybreak is more monstrous than they are. They feel better then. They find it easier to live."



Admiral Donutz VIP Member

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#53 11 years ago

Nemmerle;4600593Freedom does not begin and end with party based democracy.

Behind door A you have something, behind door B you have something. Choose. Door A or door B?

What's that you chose door A? Wow you chose to have your family raped to death, well done there. What's that you chose door B? Wow you chose to have your little sister tortured in front of you. Free choice rocks! Wooo go democracy!

Chose door C, D , E, F, G, H, I and J? One of them is bound to be reasonable enough.

Your choice is anything but free and without enough information even that restrained choice has no more worth than flipping a coin. Those two facts are the underlying flaw both with the current Western incarnation of democracy and with human nature.

I hav the free choice of about 10 parties (doors if you like) and if I don't like it I can build my own door (though not a lot of people will bother since those other 10 doors are reasonable enough).

If I was up there trying to get elected do you honestly think for a moment that I'd tell you what I really thought? If you do you're a moron. I'd tell you what was going to get me elected and gloss over or lie about anything that was going to run contrary to that. And against an honest candidate, not that there is such a thing, I'd win - wouldn't even be a challenge. While he was up there telling you that America brought 9/11 upon itself and things of that ilk I'd be up there telling you that the evil Jihadists hate America and we're a shinning beacon of hope in the world. And people would vote for me.

Maybe you wouldn't tell what you would think about some details or smaller issues but if you lied about your fundamentals it would pretty tricky. If you be able to keep a straight face while selling pure bullshite from tip to toe and from here to haven, hell and back again and you would end up in power you could either:

- Keep up the lie and do what you told you would do evne if you disagree with it (heh). - Just ignore some promises but overall work on what you promised. - Fuck it all, but in that case the other parties in power would probably let you drop rendering you to a useless opposition position.

People like being lied to, if you tell them the truth, that they may have to live through some difficult times or their foriegn policy may be responsible for them being attacked or even that you don't believe in god then they have to deal with a world in which something other than themselves and what they'd like to be exists. Most people don't like that world, they'd prefer to believe in a gentler world where leaders have the continuing best intentions towards their subjects, where hard times can be avoided and where they're not truly responsible for any attacks against them. They invent foreign monsters to make their own monstrosity seem less, they worship gods to enforce a sense of morality or provide comfort for values they cannot develop on their own and if you try and take that fantasy away from them, make them deal with a harsher more practical world they run to whomever will sell them another fantasy. So preferring to believe the lie, they sell their vote to whomever is the best at holding them when they get scared, whoever will sell them their latest monster support their god and tell them everything will be alright.

I like a politician to tell me he will try to set things right but I won't trust them if they promises me to move mountains and shit gold. Those are populist assholes who make promises things they can not make true (even if they wanted to or just to gain power). That said, the politicians have shown a slight move in this direction. People living their own reasonablily good life with an income and roof above their head and a car before the door (well unless you live in the states... ;) ) and they are happy enough with that. But for the trouble down the street they want "them" to fix it. "them" being politicians. And they can't fix all and they know it. Any sane person should know. I know I know. I know I can only hope the politicians are able to build a foundation to deal with such issues down the street though in the end it would still be the people who would have to fix it themselves. Politicians can give you the tools that is it.

So if a politician tells me he's going to fix this and that for me and make chickens shit gold I will laugh at them. Currently we have two poppulist parties like that overhere (Geert Wilder's his Party of Freedom and Rita Verdonks party Proud of The Netherlands) and some others who are a bit nervous about losing votes and showing these tendencies of sweet talking "the" citizen. I don't buy it. I laugh.

And if some people move against that, refuse to purchase the fantasy and pretend that they’ve been given a meaningful choice then they will cheer for whatever two bit jester will speak of a duty to do so.

Politicians caught on to this a long time ago, tell people they're in for a shit ride with you and they'll go to someone else, tell people you'll make everything better and fight that evil thing out there and they'll run screaming into your arms. Make no mistake: Shit floats to the top.

Well true on the "promising a shit right" part. No leader should promise a shit right. That would be like a choach telling his team "we are going to lose this afternoon, it's a bunch of shit, we shouldn't even try, we are all fucked, don't bother" he would eb a bad leader. He should tell them "things don't look pretty but we must fight and try, we might achief more then we would think but at the very least we might still stand. At the worst, we would go down fighting and with pride".

You know who I'd vote for if I had a free vote? Me. The only person I honestly trust to lead the country to a better future. Failing that I'd vote for one of my friends, then one of my teachers, then relatives, and so on in terms of who I know best, and last of all politicians who I know not at all.

Ofcourse, I would do the best job to satisfy me, myself and I.

To say that democracy is an expression of your freedom of choice stems from propaganda more than a rational assessment of the facts. Your choice is anything but free. You don't know what a candidate stands for and there are many good reasons to suppose that they are lying. Hell even if we entertain for a moment that you could know what he stands for now you've no way of knowing whether that's going to be the case in an hour a day a week or a month from now.

And that is why you should distrust the guy who promises you gold, go for the guy who says things are brons but he will try to turn (some) things silver and maybe one or two items into gold. And if he lies, well the other parties in the coalition will drop the ball and the voters will drop them next time around. Keeping up a lie can only be done for so long. And indeed I wouldn't know what his stance would eb next week on certain new items. But I can't tel that about myself either. Certain events, circumstances, information and such might chanche my view. But I do know that several of the politicians atleast share some fundational principles so whatever happens they wouldn't screw me in the arse. THey might take a piss on me at worst. But then I'll piss bak on them during the next elections.

Freedom does not begin and end with party-based democracy. Your choice, freedoms and politics do not end with election day. That is no real choice and there are many other far more practical ways in which we can influence our world and enforce our ideals. Personally I intend to join the police force and fight for the ideas of justice and peace that I believe in – I will live my morals and fight for my freedoms and yours if you’re ever within my jurisdiction. And if you say I’ve no right to complain, no freedoms or voice to use simply because I do not vote, then at least bear in mind that I’ve made a choice, I’m exercising it within a society, those are my freedoms because I make them, not because they’re given to me on a silver platter with a nice bed time story in my nice comfy cage. You too could make a morally meaningful choice if you wanted to – I’m not saying everyone should go out and become a policeman but if you really believe these things then live them, don’t just be content with the fantasy you’re sold.

Ofcourse, politicians can't perform miracles. To make this society reasonable enough we need them though, but we also need various agencies, watchdogs, workers, idealists, artists, realists, pesimist and the whole bunch of them. And then there will always be reason to complain, even if you end up fucking rich or down in the gutter and nobody can do a thing about it. You either live with it or you can die. I prefer to live with lives flaws and enjoy the good parts in it.




Mr. Pedantic

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#54 11 years ago
Chose door C, D , E, F, G, H, I and J? One of them is bound to be reasonable enough.

Why do you have to make a choice anyway?




Admiral Donutz VIP Member

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#55 11 years ago
Mr. Pedantic;4601857Why do you have to make a choice anyway?

Because I have momentum (walking, on a conveyer belt or whatever) and don't like to slam into a door?

Or we could remove all doors (the entire goverment) and we could all happily enjoy communism (which sadly won't work in practise).




Mr. Pedantic

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#56 11 years ago
Because I have momentum (walking, on a conveyer belt or whatever) and don't like to slam into a door? Or we could remove all doors (the entire goverment) and we could all happily enjoy communism (which sadly won't work in practise).

Well, I was just pointing out that because if you can't choose to not make a choice, then its not really a democracy.




Guest

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#57 11 years ago

Vote or be a moron. Its your country, care more. We have no other system. Democratic or communist, your choice, look at communist countries, look good does it ? Vote or be a moron lazy arse looser with no say, l dont give a shit for ALL the bullshit excuses. There all bullshit. Live in china or somehwere similar, you got it to good in some democratic countries, you fail to appreciate it properly, and then in turn fail to vote, moronic really, consider if every single person voted, what a message you could send to the govenments, hell the greens could take power LOL, no it'll never happen, but all you morons who dont vote add to that problem. Vote for your childrens children, just to ensure the system we have remains, and doesnt end up a perverted communistic system because so few ended up voting in the end. Imagine letting the few vote for the masses, dont complain when you get taxes you didnt see commin. You realise the out of the few, the RICH people ALWAYS vote, ever wondered why ? vote or be a moron. yes l vote.




Metall_pingwin

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#58 11 years ago
Admiral Donutz;4601872Or we could remove all doors (the entire goverment) and we could all happily enjoy communism (which sadly won't work in practise).

Removing all doors seems like a more suitable metaphor for Anarchy. Communism would be more like only getting one door, and having it crush you as you try to open it.




Admiral Donutz VIP Member

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#59 11 years ago
Metall_pingwin;4606138Removing all doors seems like a more suitable metaphor for Anarchy. Communism would be more like only getting one door, and having it crush you as you try to open it.

Perhaps yes. Though I would say the "communist door" would be the one that "should" selfdestruct (remove itself) once you went through according to the manual but in practise will not...




Metall_pingwin

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#60 11 years ago
Admiral Donutz;4606282Perhaps yes. Though I would say the "communist door" would be the one that "should" selfdestruct (remove itself) once you went through according to the manual but in practise will not...

Or perhaps we have not practiced it enough. Nevertheless I agree. :]