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BeIthagor

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#1 9 months ago

sorry guys the full post got cut off:


Hello everyone!


A while ago a friend shared a Go Nagai quote on war with me: "I guess this is one of the reasons why Japanese people, who have been raised for the last 60 years reading comics that some people abroad have labeled as hyper-violent, chose not to be involved in war after 1945 and have stated in their very constitution that they renounce war, as opposed to a country like the US, which has strong censorship against violence in animation and programs for children, but has been at war for most of its recent history."


....and this quote reminds me of something I once said:


The only reason the United States Government hates me is because I can't make weapons for them.


Discuss.




Last edited by BeIthagor 9 months ago

FileTrekker Über Admin

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#2 9 months ago

I'm not sure I follow sorry?


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RadioactiveLobster Forum Admin

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#3 9 months ago

Have they redefined what "Intelligent" means while I was away?


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BeIthagor

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#4 9 months ago

the full post got cut off....




Andron Taps Forum Mod

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#5 9 months ago

Is there no way to get the rest of it posted?


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Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#6 9 months ago

It's probably true enough that the US has a relatively violent culture. But to take the jump from that to claim that the only thing that the culture is interested in is violence, and that they hate or love people purely in terms of their capacity to promote the US's ability to inflict violence, seems somewhat unwarranted. The US has, even today, numerous social programs (despite its current existence under a right wing government) and many of its citizens are engaged in activities that, at least on a surface level, have little to nothing to do with military expeditions.




Last edited by Nemmerle 9 months ago

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#7 9 months ago

Now that I'm more awake I re-read the OP.

I have to ask: do many Japanese kids shows have graphic violence?  Most shows I'm aware of in the states aimed at ages 6-12 generally aren't meant to be ultra-violent or depressing.  There's still plenty of media here that not only shows great deals of it but practically extolls the virtues of killing and torture.  Game of Thrones is a perfect example, as well as many of the other popular Showtime and HBO shows.  Hell, one of the most popular genres is the forensic detective show and those are filled with very dark themes and situations and are broadcast on easily accessible channels with little more than a disclaimer.  But it seems to me our culture is more focused on censorship of sexual content than violence.  The Dark Knight, for example, was thoroughly depressing and sad with some pretty disturbing images, but it managed to get away with a PG-13 rating because there was never any nudity and, if memory serves, no swearing.  As far as kids shows are concerned, Sailor Moon originally had two lesbian characters in a relationship changed to being cousins in the American dubbed version, so, again, it seems to me our attention is, or was, focused elsewhere.


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



BeIthagor

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#8 9 months ago
Posted by Nemmerle

It's probably true enough that the US has a relatively violent culture. But to take the jump from that to claim that the only thing that the culture is interested in is violence, and that they hate or love people purely in terms of their capacity to promote the US's ability to inflict violence, seems somewhat unwarranted. The US has, even today, numerous social programs (despite its current existence under a right wing government) and many of its citizens are engaged in activities that, at least on a surface level, have little to nothing to do with military expeditions.

You always make meaningful posts but there are a few examples where you're wrong. Albert Einstein would be one based on history. He escaped from Germany during World War 2, and was accepted in the US only to have his invention turned into something horrible.




Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#9 9 months ago
Posted by BeIthagorYou always make meaningful posts but there are a few examples where you're wrong. Albert Einstein would be one based on history. He escaped from Germany during World War 2, and was accepted in the US only to have his invention turned into something horrible.

I'm not saying the US does or does not love particular people in terms of their ability to create weapons. There will doubtless be some people that the US - or more accurately some of the people in the US government and/or involved with executing its decisions or policy - does love purely in terms of such an ability. Unit 731 springs to mind as a group that did relatively well out of having something that the US government wanted at the time. I'm not sure that I would say that the US loved them. However, leaving aside the question of whether or not it was the right deal to make in order to obtain sufficient information to keep the Soviets out of the picture, the US certainly helped them in ways they otherwise wouldn't have.


What I am saying, however, is that the US government, insofar as it can be generally spoken of, wants a lot of different things. Not everything it does is about killing, or even about war. Yes there does seem to be a very adversarial, violent trend in their culture. (The same quite frankly, although to a lesser degree, seems to be the case with British culture.) With regards to any randomly chosen member of the world's population, the US is consequently going to have a bunch of potential motives and interests. Yes Einstein got to go to America, so do thousands of other people, so do thousands of other people who subsequently become US citizens. If the only thing that mattered about a person to the US was that they could create weapons that would not be the case[1].


I mean, heck. Are you really telling me you think that if you were a giant oil magnate with craptons of money, America would be all like "Hey man, don't come over here! We don't even like money!" - ? Of course they like money! Or if you had a skilled profession - do you think they'd be all "Hey man, we don't want any more neurosurgeons over here!"


The US does have a violent culture. And it gets in a lot of wars. But if you want to forward the argument that the only reason they hate you or don't love you or whatever is that you can't create weapons for them, then:


- You've kinda got to prove that they think about you at all

And

- You'd have to show that, given they hated you, they did so because of your inability to create weapons (rather than one of the many other reasons they could hate you - not being a rich oil magnate, not being a neurosurgeon, not being a really good computer programmer creating a startup, etc...)


--------------------------------------

1. It wouldn't be the case for Einstein either. Einstein escaped Germany before World War 2, at a time the Americans were not taking the potential of nuclear weapons particularly seriously, and subsequently signed a letter to the US Government of the time recommending the development of nuclear weapons, (on the grounds that the Germans might get them first and that Hitler would be inclined to use them.) It's not as if he went to the US contingent on developing nuclear weapons, or went to the US and handed over a bunch of research that they then abused. 

It's true enough that Einstein later considered the signing of the letter a mistake, but that is neither here nor there.




Last edited by Nemmerle 9 months ago

BeIthagor

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#10 9 months ago
Posted by Nemmerle
Posted by BeIthagorYou always make meaningful posts but there are a few examples where you're wrong. Albert Einstein would be one based on history. He escaped from Germany during World War 2, and was accepted in the US only to have his invention turned into something horrible.

I'm not saying the US does or does not love particular people in terms of their ability to create weapons. There will doubtless be some people that the US - or more accurately some of the people in the US government and/or involved with executing its decisions or policy - does love purely in terms of such an ability. Unit 731 springs to mind as a group that did relatively well out of having something that the US government wanted at the time. I'm not sure that I would say that the US loved them. However, leaving aside the question of whether or not it was the right deal to make in order to obtain sufficient information to keep the Soviets out of the picture, the US certainly helped them in ways they otherwise wouldn't have.


What I am saying, however, is that the US government, insofar as it can be generally spoken of, wants a lot of different things. Not everything it does is about killing, or even about war. Yes there does seem to be a very adversarial, violent trend in their culture. (The same quite frankly, although to a lesser degree, seems to be the case with British culture.) With regards to any randomly chosen member of the world's population, the US is consequently going to have a bunch of potential motives and interests. Yes Einstein got to go to America, so do thousands of other people, so do thousands of other people who subsequently become US citizens. If the only thing that mattered about a person to the US was that they could create weapons that would not be the case[1].


I mean, heck. Are you really telling me you think that if you were a giant oil magnate with craptons of money, America would be all like "Hey man, don't come over here! We don't even like money!" - ? Of course they like money! Or if you had a skilled profession - do you think they'd be all "Hey man, we don't want any more neurosurgeons over here!"


The US does have a violent culture. And it gets in a lot of wars. But if you want to forward the argument that the only reason they hate you or don't love you or whatever is that you can't create weapons for them, then:


- You've kinda got to prove that they think about you at all

And

- You'd have to show that, given they hated you, they did so because of your inability to create weapons (rather than one of the many other reasons they could hate you - not being a rich oil magnate, not being a neurosurgeon, not being a really good computer programmer creating a startup, etc...)


--------------------------------------

1. It wouldn't be the case for Einstein either. Einstein escaped Germany before World War 2, at a time the Americans were not taking the potential of nuclear weapons particularly seriously, and subsequently signed a letter to the US Government of the time recommending the development of nuclear weapons, (on the grounds that the Germans might get them first and that Hitler would be inclined to use them.) It's not as if he went to the US contingent on developing nuclear weapons, or went to the US and handed over a bunch of research that they then abused. 

It's true enough that Einstein later considered the signing of the letter a mistake, but that is neither here nor there.

I see, thanks for clarifying.




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