RedDevilXLT;48711091. yes, you can solve it militarily. What are we supposed to do? open schools for them and support their corrupted government with more of MY money? fuck that. shoot 'em and let them learn the hard way that piracy is not the answer.
Even Military generals understand the concepts of Karma. You fuck shit up and shit will fuck you up back. Those times of just firing your guns and random shit are long gone because it causes far more damange than fixing anything.
Bombing them to shit will cause a even worse reputation on America and will breed a whole new few generation of 'revenge children' who will be hellbent on taking revenge (maybe by attacking something big, or maybe even being nuclear terrorists or something mad like that).
3. You don't think they're patrolling that area now? Somalia has no navy and requested the help of the UN, so if that's the "front line," then we've taken it to them.
Somalia is more or less an Anarchist state, there are really no laws - the country is fucked everywhere.
4. I do, however, agree that they need to get to the pirates before the hijackings. That's a tough one BUT with diligence and patience, you can get them and EVENTUALLY these pirates and those thinking about piracy will seriously consider the possibility of death for their crimes. If you keep killing them without hesitation, they'll realize maybe it's not worth the risk and the numbers will drop. It won't be eradicated, but it will be reduced.
You might like to understand why they became pirates in the first place, and other countries are only to blame really. Remember Karma? Yeah, it's that coming to fuck you in the face.
Read this, another point of view:
Who imagined that in 2009, the world's governments would be declaring a new War on Pirates? As you read this, the British Royal Navy - backed by the ships of more than two dozen nations, from the US to China - is sailing into Somalian waters to take on men we still picture as parrot-on-the-shoulder pantomime villains. They will soon be fighting Somalian ships and even chasing the pirates onto land, into one of the most broken countries on earth. But behind the arrr-me-hearties oddness of this tale, there is an untold scandal. The people our governments are labeling as "one of the great menace of our times" have an extraordinary story to tell -- and some justice on their side. Pirates have never been quite who we think they are. In the "golden age of piracy" - from 1650 to 1730 - the idea of the pirate as the senseless, savage thief that lingers today was created by the British government in a great propaganda-heave. Many ordinary people believed it was false: pirates were often rescued from the gallows by supportive crowds. Why? What did they see that we can't? In his book Villains of All nations, the historian Marcus Rediker pores through the evidence to find out. If you became a merchant or navy sailor then - plucked from the docks of London's East End, young and hungry - you ended up in a floating wooden Hell. You worked all hours on a cramped, half-starved ship, and if you slacked off for a second, the all-powerful captain would whip you with the Cat O' Nine Tails. If you slacked consistently, you could be thrown overboard. And at the end of months or years of this, you were often cheated of your wages. Pirates were the first people to rebel against this world. They mutinied against their tyrannical captains - and created a different way of working on the seas. Once they had a ship, the pirates elected their captains, and made all their decisions collectively. They shared their bounty out in what Rediker calls "one of the most egalitarian plans for the disposition of resources to be found anywhere in the eighteenth century." They even took in escaped African slaves and lived with them as equals. The pirates showed "quite clearly - and subversively - that ships did not have to be run in the brutal and oppressive ways of the merchant service and the Royal navy." This is why they were popular, despite being unproductive thieves. The words of one pirate from that lost age - a young British man called William Scott - should echo into this new age of piracy. Just before he was hanged in Charleston, South Carolina, he said: "What I did was to keep me from perishing. I was forced to go a-pirating to live." In 1991, the government of Somalia - in the Horn of Africa - collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since - and many of the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas. Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died. Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the UN envoy to Somalia, tells me: "Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead, and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury - you name it." Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to "dispose" of cheaply. When I asked Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: "Nothing. There has been no clean-up, no compensation, and no prevention." At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia's seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish-stocks by over-exploitation - and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300m worth of tuna, shrimp, lobster and other sea-life is being stolen every year by vast trawlers illegally sailing into Somalia's unprotected seas. The local fishermen have suddenly lost their livelihoods, and they are starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: "If nothing is done, there soon won't be much fish left in our coastal waters." This is the context in which the men we are calling "pirates" have emerged. Everyone agrees they were ordinary Somalian fishermen who at first took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least wage a 'tax' on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia - and it's not hard to see why. In a surreal telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali, said their motive was "to stop illegal fishing and dumping in our waters... We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas." William Scott would understand those words. No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters - especially those who have held up World Food Programme supplies. But the "pirates" have the overwhelming support of the local population for a reason. The independent Somalian news-site WardherNews conducted the best research we have into what ordinary Somalis are thinking - and it found 70 percent "strongly supported the piracy as a form of national defence of the country's territorial waters." During the revolutionary war in America, George Washington and America's founding fathers paid pirates to protect America's territorial waters, because they had no navy or coastguard of their own. Most Americans supported them. Is this so different? Did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our nuclear waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome? We didn't act on those crimes - but when some of the fishermen responded by disrupting the transit-corridor for 20 percent of the world's oil supply, we begin to shriek about "evil." If we really want to deal with piracy, we need to stop its root cause - our crimes - before we send in the gun-boats to root out Somalia's criminals. The story of the 2009 war on piracy was best summarized by another pirate, who lived and died in the fourth century BC. He was captured and brought to Alexander the Great, who demanded to know "what he meant by keeping possession of the sea." The pirate smiled, and responded: "What you mean by seizing the whole earth; but because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, while you, who do it with a great fleet, are called emperor." Once again, our great imperial fleets sail in today - but who is the robber?
Voice of joy and sunshine
26th May 2003
Do as you will be done by, and do it first
Nice way of putting it Nem.
Also, Karma doesn't work in an immediate fashion. After you're dead is when karma comes back to you, good or bad.
I do like that article, though. Nice find and informative. But still, what do we do about it? Take into account, that although they seem to have started a noble quest to end the pollution and raping of their waters, they've pillaged, murdered, and robbed innocents who have had nothing to do with it. Two wrongs don't make a right. Defending themselves I can agree full heartedly with...but taking hostages and murdering them...not so much.
If the pirates have problems with ships dumping waste or stealing fish why don't they hit the ships doing the dumping and fishing? Why hijack ships delivering food? Why take ransoms and better their own lives instead of fighting off the people who wronged them in the first place?
The pirates are no better than the people doing the dumping and illegal fishing.
There is a very simple way to protect against pirates. Arm the crews. An armed crew could easily fend off pirates coming up in a speed boat, and if the pirates up the ante... well they really can't, it's not as if they are going to get their hands on warships anytime soon.
RedDevilXLT;4871211 I do like that article, though. Nice find and informative. But still, what do we do about it? Take into account, that although they seem to have started a noble quest to end the pollution and raping of their waters, they've pillaged, murdered, and robbed innocents who have had nothing to do with it. Two wrongs don't make a right. Defending themselves I can agree full heartedly with...but taking hostages and murdering them...not so much.[/QUOTE]
Kill the bastards doing the harm and find what is causing all this fuss and end it, maybe put laws against countries dumping their crap into peoples water, stop them stealing what is theirs.
[QUOTE=Afterburner;4871217] The pirates are no better than the people doing the dumping and illegal fishing.
Well duh, they're pirates as we labled them. Somalia will see them as heroes while we lable them theifs and evil do'ers. To be honest I wouldn't give a damn about what boat is what if countries had been destorying my land for years on end, I would like to see a eye for a eye in reality. Pirates want money and to live a good life is all, so targeting random boats isn't a problem to them, they just don't bloody care anymore.
Prehaps they would be given more media love if they only attacked the waste ships, but it's a bit hard to tell which ship is which isn't it? I don't think they lable themselves with "HEY GUYS, WE'RE DUMPING SHIT IN YOUR WATER", a diguise would be much better fitted. Maybe thats why pirates go for all the ships? And whatever they find on there is just more 'booty'.
Well, you also have to take into account the ships that have been predominantly hit: fishing and cargo. makes sense with that article's explanation: foreign fishing fleets robbing them of food and cargo ships may seem as a threat of waste dumping.
The arming of private vessels seems to be one idea, but just because you fire back doesn't mean they're going to just run away. You're in for the fight of your life if you shoot back and miss.
You can have the UN battle ships (not meant in classic terms, but generalizing "battle ships") blow them out of the water as many times as we'd like but intercepting the pirates is the issue. We can catch up to them but we have yet to prevent them from boarding boats (sorry Rich, I don't agree with the video game respawn analogy because there is no respawn system in real life. You die, you're gone. Keep taking them out in bigger numbers and eventually replacing those numbers because near impossible.)
Arresting them seems to be a very difficult prospect. How do you prosecute them? Under what country's laws? Somalia has no concrete government...The U.S.? How do we defend them? So far there seems to be no problem with the trial going on now with the captured pirate who surrendered to the U.S. but who knows how the hell you punish him? How do you prosecute him? etc etc...
Smitty025;4870369If we used enough nuclear weapons to destroy Mars, don't you think we might just destroy this nice little planet we are on?[/QUOTE] No. Mars is only slightly bigger than our moon.
Hold on, let me be sure I understand this. You are surprised that a UN mandate doesn't do something effectively?[/QUOTE] The UN and the League of Nations are some of the most useless organizations in the history of mankind.
Rich19;4871058 You CAN'T just solve this by military means. [/QUOTE] Death solves all problems. No man, no problem.Smitty025;4870369 Instead of getting a hardon over US military technology, try actually thinking about the situation. Why are the pirates there in the first place?
I dont care why they are there. They got no right to fuck with us. Im not gonna try and be understanding and have sympathy for them. I just want to see their bodies floating in the ocean.
[QUOTE=Smitty025;4870369] Is it that they are planning on taking on the navy single handedly? (Note - the US component is only a small part of the anti-pirate force).
I really hope they are not that stupid.
[QUOTE=Smitty025;4870369] No. The pirates need to make a living, and due to the social conditions in Somalia, piracy offers them their best chance at that.
Social conditions suck everywhere, why is somolia so special that they get to hijack ships?
[QUOTE=Smitty025;4870369] And so until you deal with the root cause of piracy, your ships do not even come close to "enough ammo for every pirate in existance".
Yea right smitty. You obviously dont know shit about naval warships. Even LHD's carry a shit ton of ammo. (At least enough to provide 15 AAV's with over 200 rounds of 50 cal ammo each and over 96 mark-19 rounds each). Not to mention their 556 ammo and the ammo for the gatling guns on the top of the ship.
Trust me, we have plenty of ammo.
NiteStryker;4871340 Social conditions suck everywhere, why is somolia so special that they get to hijack ships?
Isn't it obvious? Because they're next to the ocean! If Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and any other -stan had access to a vast ocean like Somalia, they too would have funded pirates...but alas their terroristic creativity is limited to killing themselves in consistently predictable manners. :lol:
(not to be taken seriously there LOL)
NiteStryker;4871340 Death solves all problems. No man, no problem.
Cool bro, Josepth Stalin quotes make it justified.
1. Karst: I'm sure the ammunition strongholds in our Naval fleet carry enough ammo for every pirate in existence. :nodding:
2. Karst: they're called blackhawks and AC-130's. You can easily get these heavily fortified aircraft over great distances that can easily intercept and destroy any pirate. The military has advanced A LOT since WWII; we don't need defined front lines to fight on. That stopped in Vietnam.
3. Warforger: The Nazi's mass murdered 10's of millions of innocents. We would be killing murderers and criminals....I don't see a similarity.
Ummm since when was everyone in Somalia a pirate? We would be killing everyone in Somalia by nuking it. Out of any reasons I've ever heard of nuking anything, nuking a country because of a couple of pirates is by far the weakest. I mean going by your logic, lets take every Muslim load them up in camps, stuff them in gas chambers and kill them all. I mean after all there terrorists just because there Muslim, so every Somalian must be a pirate because there Somalian.