gameplayerabm;3483883Should we be allowed to break into the very, very rich people's homes and steal directly from them? Should we be allowed to kill the very, very rich? I hate to extend the analogy to such obvious absurdities, but it's just to make the point that being rich shouldn't open you up to criminal behavior. That's discrimination, pure and simple.
Relander also makes a very good point; not all artists are necessarily rich, and piracy hurts them too.
Only if you pirate from them. Likewise for software. I don't pirate software, because as a rule, people who write software don't get as much money or recognition as those who make music. Case in point, who has heard of Led Zeppelin? And who has heard of Ken Levine?
08'aIgnorance is not an excuse
28th November 2003
Relander;3483759How about all artists, all game & movie makers and small investors? "Goal sanctifies the means", "from rich for the poor" like Robin Hood eh? I suggest you to think about your logic a little bit further.
This only goes for artist but: I think all bands (except maybe the big monsters (read Beatles ;))) makes more money with piracy. As we all know the artists gets almost nothing from the record sales. The record labels takes it's share and so does the shops selling the record, the cost it costs to burn and distribute the CD unt so weiter. Bands get their money from concerts and merchandise. Artists generally doesn't loose money when someone downloads thier album, because more people discovers them and goes to thier concerts and buys thier t-shirts. Atleast that's my theory.
I have two examples:
The first is something I read in the newspaper a while ago. There's a Swedish record label (can't remember the name) that lets you download every album they're producing for free. The owner said something like "Lets say 100,000 people are downloading an album and 10% of them decides to buy the album to support the band. That's 10,000 CD's sold". Apparently his company was doing pretty well.
My second example is the Swedish band Machinae Supremacy. You can download all their songs for free on their website (http://www.machinaesupremacy.com/). I must say that I really like this band (I recommend the song "hybrid"), they're playing some kind of metal mixed with electronic sounds. If they're ever going to play in Stockholm I'll sure go and see them. If they wouldn't have made their songs available for free on their homepage I wouldn't even have been aware of their existence, and thus they wouldn't have made any money from me if they're ever coming to Stockholm.
I'm not defending piracy, I like to have the real thing in my hand, but I think all the big recordlabels will die out in 10 years and that the bands will make all their songs available for free on the internet. To sum up my theory: Albums will just be PR to get people to go in their concerts. Just look at Myspace, the revolution has begun!
Ways to pirate music wasn't brought about because the consumer wanted to steal from the record companies. If the music was priced at a decent price for the last 30-40 years you wouldn't have as many people pirating. The truth is the record companies thought they had a monopoly on music distribution. So year after year they raised the prices. I can remember paying $30 for a korn:follow the leader cd just about 8 years ago. The internet was taking off but broadband hadn't come into the real picture yet. There was no way they could've predicted that a new medium of distribution would come about. But when it did people took advantage of it because it was a means to balance out the industry.
Look at itunes. It's become a huge market to buy and sell music. It has grown this huge in the face of piracy. How did they do this? Previewable singles at 99 cents a song.
Wow..... Thats so clever. But building an island to have your own pirating country? A gang of 100 men might go there and take it over... mini wars might happen. lol
I'm way cooler than n0e (who isn't though?)
11th February 2003
Lets see how they like it when I round up some friends and nice motorized sail boats and go pirate Sealand. Better not cry pirates!
edit: heh I wrote this post before even seeing captain blade's :P
I didn't make it!
I do hope they realize there would be no laws PROTECTING them either. So anyone with a boat could go rob the place or kill the operators or do whatever the hell they want.
I would have no qualms about getting in a boat and stealing their servers.
Fez Boy;3483805I don't follow logic on this issue. I follow the age-old doctrine of "ooh, good stuff for minimum effort."
Case in point. If I were to eschew my tastes and download a Beatles track free of charge, who gets hurt? John Lennon? No, because he's dead. Likewise for George Harrison. Paul McCartney or Ringo Starr? No, because they go to sleep every night on a massive bed made of money, with Barbera Bach, possibly the worst Bond girl ever. They couldn't give a fuck whether I download one of their tracks, because they are so rich that it doesn't matter.
Okay, what if you, and fifty other million people decide to do exactly this. Then there would be no content to download, because there would be no record company to distribute it.
Relander;3483885 Some people are like that but not all.
Difficult to say, the only data we get comes from organizations that represent the interests of the industry and is of course exaggerated (wouldn't be the first time they present false data, they did the same when VCRs were introduced).
Or then the increase of music sales just happened to start in the same time as the internet came around. How about advertising and music/movie previews in the net?
Tell me one person in their right mind who looks at pop-up advertisement :) I think listening to a song is a much better advertisement than reading about it in the corner of a webpage.
That doesn't make sense: why they wouldn't want to market their products easily at the internet, getting extra money and prevent piracy, thus getting more money? Besides, "ridiculous" is in the eye of the beholder and if you don't like the prices, then you just don't buy but not pirate either.
All blame on companies and not individuals who pirate?
You are mixing my viewpoint and the one of the respective industry. The industry doesn't want to sell in the internet because they can get much more by dictating a much higher price on the normal market. There is no competition there, all new DVDs have the same price so it is no wonder that they are extremely high.
MrFancypants;3484017Tell me one person in their right mind who looks at pop-up advertisement :) I think listening to a song is a much better advertisement than reading about it in the corner of a webpage.
If anything, the rise in music sales is best attributed to devices like the iPod and portable MP3 players, not rising illegal music downloads, or more advertising.
The way I figure it is, I (hypothetically, and this point stands throughout the remainder of my post) pirate things that I couldn't or wouldn't buy otherwise. Would I spend 3000, or better yet 4000 bucks on 3D Studio Max for the sake of an interest? I don't have that much in my acount, period, much less for a hobby. A more common example is music, I have long spend days, weeks, months even, looking for soundtracks to no avail. Now very well I can just go ahead and try and order one, have it get broken along the way and waste upwards of a month trying to get a propper CD, or I can download it over the course of 2 days and listen to it when I want. Furthermore the lack of a credit or debit card makes things difficult as I am without ability to buy things online regaurdless, and I have neither because I cannot trust the company behind one, and I cannot trust myself with the other. Most people have a limited income, and furthermore, an unlimited amount of expenditures. Do I have 20 bucks for a CD that I enjoy 1 or 2 tracks from, or do I need that to pay for tommorow's food. The last scennario is the least moral, but is roughly common, downloading something (IE Films) because I'm not sure whether or not something is good or not. How much bullshit have I seen pour out of Disney, how good could Titan AE really be, how could anime of any sort prove entertaining, is Bram's Strokers Dracula truly good or am I simply in a daze every time I happen to catch it on television? If I go out and buy it, I may very well waste perfectly good meal money, and beleive me I have wasted alot of money: See "The Life Aquatic: With Steve Zizou" or rather, don't see. As well as many others *mutters about Constantine soundtrack being the same song over and over and overagain*
In the end, I've given the industry my money time and time again, and gotten a collection of worthless plastic discs in return, which make poor clay target replacements (too leathal). Piracy to me is in most cases in which I "hypothetically" take part in, perfectly moral.
The Artists, they get their money when the record company gets the recording, afterwards it's concerts (which I don't think are quite Piratable yet, atleast not till VR), royalties (rather shitty opercentages), and further contract deals. If anything, pirates are hurting the record companies more than the artists, (many of whom, and overwhelmingly wealthy for the ammount of "work" they put in: See popular Rap music, pop in general, etc.) Does it hurt the chances of renewed contracts? Yes, by a small percentage. So instead of someone taking money out of your weekly paycheck, think someone competing with you for a new commission, and having a ice cube's chance in hell of taking it away from you, if you did well enough to receive that competition in the first place.
The record companies and production companies I have little sympathy for, they are corrupt and the RIIA is proof of that, having sued 12 yr olds 25,000 for a single song. It is the government's job to protect it's people, not it's senator's benefactor's investors who are in the act of screwing over the rest of the people.
Sealand: Pirate Bay has found land, if they can raise 2 billion, which is possible over the course of half a decade or more, then all to em. I can see a corporate raid coming soon after it's completion, in which event it meerly creates a matyr(the pirate bay station, not nessisarily it's people) and sparks mass piracy. Should any personel be harmed, it may be possible to get coastguard support and would definately get international attension. If it lasts a few decades, the next working generation will probaly care more of it's safety than this one, as many of the youngyins of today have pirated something in their lifetime and can see sympathy.