Ireland devastates EU Treaty of Lisbon 37 replies

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Rikupsoni

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26th April 2004

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#1 10 years ago

BBC NEWS | Europe | Ireland rejects EU reform treaty

Well that was dissapointing. Country with population of 4,4 million and with only 55 % voting of the 3 million people who are eligble to vote may have vetoed a treaty in a 490 million people's union.

First off:

Correspondents say many voters did not understand the treaty despite a high-profile campaign led by Mr Cowen, which had the support of most of the country's main parties.

Why voting 'no' when you don't know enough about the treaty is better than voting 'yes' as suggested by your politicians, who know the actual law text better than you. Really shows you why parliamentary democracy is the thing, people didn't bother to read the whole treaty and perhaps they can't be expected either. So, why not let the politicians you yourself elected to expertise on the issue and do the job for you? Some silly smear campaigns occured as well, if you vote 'yes' EU will attach microships to children and raise all taxes. In some cases it wasn't even about politics, as the Eurovision contester turkey came to the no-campaign to say "Europe did not vote for you. Don't vote for them either".

Why this treaty was negative in the first place? As some UK MP said, this is the eurosceptic's treaty. Makes EU more efficient, gives more power to European parliament and so on. It seems it was really not about any real issues, just to sabotage EU's work.

And what made some people angry: Ireland has been benefitting greatly from EU financial support, exploited EU's differences in taxation to get companies from EU countries to move to Ireland. This little Ireland atleast isn't very grateful to have been one of the countries which have benefitted most from the EU.

Still, José Manuel Barroso insists all remaining countries to ratify it and says it will come to effect in some way as Ireland is only one of the 27 countries. Will they just kick Ireland out or make them vote again as with the Nice Treaty?




Joe Bonham

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10th December 2005

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#2 10 years ago

Interesting that the only country that allowed a popular vote was the one that turned down the treaty. Funny coincidence. God forbid the peasantry should be allowed to govern themselves.




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#3 10 years ago
Bohemund;4385474Interesting that the only country that allowed a popular vote was the one that turned down the treaty. Funny coincidence. God forbid the peasantry should be allowed to govern themselves.

Quoted for truth.

Strange coincidence isn't it?




Crazy Wolf VIP Member

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#4 10 years ago

Rikupsoni;4385199BBC NEWS | Europe | Ireland rejects EU reform treaty

Well that was dissapointing. Country with population of 4,4 million and with only 55 % voting of the 3 million people who are eligble to vote may have vetoed a treaty in a 490 million people's union.

First off: Why voting 'no' when you don't know enough about the treaty is better than voting 'yes' as suggested by your politicians, who know the actual law text better than you...

It is generally considered better to vote no because you aren't adding something you know nothing about. For the Americans, wouldn't it have been nicer if the PATRIOT Act was actually read by the people who voted for it? It is part of the whole "don't let the government do your thinking for you" thing.

Oh, and why a small nation should have power to veto: you gave it that opwer. It is considered a way to protect small nations, it is the same reason why the USA has 2 Senators from each state no matter their population. Y'know, equality n'stuff. I guess the EU is run more like the Senate than the House of Representatives. A good thing, it minimizes the "bullying" the larger nations like Germany and France can do.




Karst

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#5 10 years ago

It's not like there's nothing to criticize about the EU. There are plenty of reasons to be critical of it, such as the free market principles it's based on, their refusal to introduce wide-ranging human rights laws, etc.

What I have a problem with, is that criticism of the EU is usually reduced to nationalistic drivel spewed forth by populist interest groups. The average anti-EU voter are just afraid of the "together" sentiment instead of their own little nationalistic feeling of pride, instead of having any real reasons to reject it.




UNDIESRULES

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#6 10 years ago
The 53.4 per cent “no” vote should in theory sign the death warrant of the treaty, which has been eight years in the making, since it requires ratification by all 27 members. Gordon Brown faced immediate calls to scrap British ratification.

Irish voters sign death warrant for EU's Lisbon treaty - Times Online

Thats the bit i have taken from all this, why don't the rest of us get a reforendum?? We don't all want to be part of the EU. I am pleased Ireland voted no, i only wish more of us had the choice to do so.




masked_marsoe VIP Member

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#7 10 years ago

I think it should have gone to a vote across the EU. I'm glad Ireland actually bothered, because it smacks of backroom political elitism to do otherwise.

Nevertheless, the treaty was a good idea, though it has its flaws.




AegenemmnoN VIP Member

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#8 10 years ago

*Follows blindly*




Freyr VIP Member

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#9 10 years ago

masked_marsoe;4385694I think it should have gone to a vote across the EU. I'm glad Ireland actually bothered, because it smacks of backroom political elitism to do otherwise.

Nevertheless, the treaty was a good idea, though it has its flaws.

The only reason Ireland had a referendum is because all EU treaties have to be added to their constitution, and any modification to their constitution requires a referendum.

After the way it was kicked out by the French and the Dutch in referendums in 2005 we obviously aren't going to get a vote on it because the politicians don't want to be told "NO!"




Rikupsoni

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#10 10 years ago
Crazy Wolf;4385625It is generally considered better to vote no because you aren't adding something you know nothing about. For the Americans, wouldn't it have been nicer if the PATRIOT Act was actually read by the people who voted for it? It is part of the whole "don't let the government do your thinking for you" thing.

But it wasn't like the "always-so-evil government" pushing arbitrary laws. All parties in the Irish parliament, including opposition, supported the treaty except the small nationalist party Sinn Féin.

Also it was a bit ironical that their own currency, Euro, slided after their own vote. They forgot they didn't just shoot some Europeans, but themselves as well in the foot.

People also say that all referendums on EU treaties have failed. Dutch, French and now the Irish. Spain and Luxembourg did ratify the constitution with referenda during the short period in 2005-06.