It's alright. God gets the final word 73 replies

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Nemmerle Advanced Member

Voice of joy and sunshine

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26th May 2003

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#1 15 years ago

Blair and god. It's a long standing relationship which has always been obvious in the Blair faction currently ruling over this country. Yet when those beliefs are allowed to influence the leadership of a country in the pursuit of a war, when there is a system where a single group is given the sort of power where those beliefs can become policy and lead to the needless deaths of hundreds of troops. Well something's not quite right. To a certain extent it can even be argued that it's impossible to avoid having our religious beliefs influence our decisions. For surely who we are, our personality and reasoning is based off of our perception of the world and that perception is based in no small part upon our beliefs in relation to reality. Mr Blair's recent remarks in relationship to the decision to go to war with Iraq.

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Tony Blair: "That decision has to be taken and has to be lived with, and in the end there is a judgement that, well, I think if you have faith about these things then you realise that judgement is made by other people, and also by..." Michael Parkinson: "Sorry, what do you mean by that?"

Blair: "I mean by other people, by, if you believe in God, it's made by God as well and that judgement in the end has to be, you know, you do your...

However misplaced are not however the main interest of this thread. The question that is of interest is along the same general lines though, it's a question of the separation of church and state, a question of liberty.

The separation of church and state, which is not as marked in this country as it is in the states, (I recently had to attend two day's worth of Religious education seminars as a compulsory part of my A-Level courses,) has the primary purpose of limiting the amount of power a religious institution can bring to bear. A method of ensuring that the people rather than the pope, (or whatever other institution,) are the actual force behind the direction of power. There is the opinion that if the people vote a religious man into office surely they approve of his religion and therefore any implementation he might make of it. This is not the case however, in elections people get an extremely limited choice, it's not mix and match and the person you vote for may simply be the best among a few bad choices. It's the equivalent of pointing a gun at someone and asking them to choose between being shot in the head or in the gut, just because they might choose the gut it doesn't mean they wanted to be shot there merely that there was no other choice.

Some would say that religion should rule, that only it can enforce good morals in leadership. However this overlooks the many cases of people who have claimed to be religious, to follow a peaceful and moral path and yet committed great atrocities. Religion does not of itself insure good moral decisions. Does religion actually have a place in politics? Certainly, but it only stands to reason that the place it has is represented by the electorate in a more free choice than in the imbalance and hypocrisy of a general election, if people want religion to be reflected in their choices for instance the decision to go to war then surely it is much more democratic to let them make the choice for themselves by way of a referendum than to enforce your own point of view upon them.

So, what’s your view on the separation of church and state? Do we need one, should it be bigger smaller, non-existent? Do you want a book written a few thousand years ago dictating the actions people take on your behalf?

Oh and an item of interest for those about to support religion in the state, the National Curriculum states that two thirds of the time spent must be on Christianity in this country. The inevitable signs of a state religion perhaps...




Aeroflot

I would die without GF

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2nd May 2003

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#2 15 years ago

I don't mean to offend anybody, but I think religion is

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retarded.

It should have no connection with politics whatsoever and people in high positions should not be openly religious. Religions only oppresses people, starts wars, and is used as an excuse to do wrong. I'm sorry, but religion and the state should have no connection.




-Ghost-

Phantom of the Forums

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19th August 2003

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#3 15 years ago

I voted "Increased to an American Level" . Supressing religion is just as bad as it is to let it run free and control everything. Everyone has a right to believe in what they want to believe in, although they don't have the right to force it upon others if they don't want it.




MrFancypants Forum Administrator

The Bad

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7th December 2003

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#4 15 years ago

I'm for the separation of religion and politics, mostly because I imagine that if there is a God he must be absolutely annoyed by all those who claimed that their actions are his will.

Religion has it's good side, a good part of our ethics is based on Christianity, but a mixture of religion and politics can be dangerous because religious people often try to enforce their fanatical viewpoints on others or because scrupulous politicians try to use the people's religiousness to achieve their personal aims.




DnC

GF's Cognitive Psychologist

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13th April 2004

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#5 15 years ago
AeroflotI don't mean to offend anybody, but I think religion is
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retarded.

Do you even know what retarded means? No seriously.




SilentHitz

When in doubt...KILL IT!!

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23rd June 2005

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#6 15 years ago
MrFancypantsI'm for the separation of religion and politics, mostly because I imagine that if there is a God he must be absolutely annoyed by all those who claimed that their actions are his will. Religion has it's good side, a good part of our ethics is based on Christianity, but a mixture of religion and politics can be dangerous because religious people often try to enforce their fanatical viewpoints on others or because scrupulous politicians try to use the people's religiousness to achieve their personal aims.

True, I believe in a higher power ( call it what you choose ), but when mixed with politics, history has shown it can indeed be dangerous....even deadly.




Emperor Benedictine

You can't fire me, I quit

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16th April 2005

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#7 15 years ago

Church and State must be separate in the interests of religious freedom. Of course a religious politician cannot be completely uninfluenced by his/her beliefs, but they can avoid making policy decisions based on the promotion of religion. As for teaching religion in schools...it depends on what you mean by "teaching religion". Religious Education is just a way of acquiring knowledge of religions, which I don't see a flaw in...it is probably a useful thing to learn. Trying to instill religious values through schools is different.




masked_marsoe Advanced Member

Heaven's gonna burn your eyes

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15th April 2005

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#8 15 years ago

I think that religion and State must be seperated.

I have nothing against religion being taught in schools, so long as it's not just Christianity. What should be taught is what religions are, how we can work with differences in belief etc.

I was taught "religion" by a group of well-meaning Christians. They managed to put me off Christianity forever. If they had said "we believe this, and some people believe this, and you're free to make your own choice" I would be a very religious person.




pesci_fan

Gordon Frohman is my hero!

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23rd March 2004

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#9 15 years ago

This is my stand on church and state..... Since I live in America, and religion is a BIG DEAL in my state, I hold a predijuce towards religious nuts, and bush-supporting republicans, because the main reason, Bush is getting support, is because of his faith...not his job performance. I feel that religion is just too centralized, and has been ruined by the church, media, and just in general....the public. I am a religious man, but I practice it in my solitude, but every once in a while I'll enjoy expressing my beliefs to another, that is if they are willing to accept, or allow me to have a choice in wethier or not I should change, or modify my beliefs with theirs. I once talked to this girl about religion, and she was so open, and so accepting on my belifes, that I actualy respected her and her attitude towards my beliefs so much, I actualy decided to modify my beliefs because of that. While most ppl I generally know, would just say their belief is the true one, and I'm a loser if I dont believe in that (Well, EXCUSE....ME!). So anyway, onto my 2 cents on what church and state should be in education. Religion can be very dangerous, if taken wrongly..(muslim terries, KKK) 1: 10 minutes should be held for reflection, weather its for religous prayer, or just cramming in some final info for the exam. 2: A course that offers a neutral look at religion, so that no student is biast, or predijuce of another student for their beliefs. It teaches general basics of every major religon, including Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddism, Hinduism ect. 3: After the Religion 101 course has been taken, the student can have a choice of choosing a religion to follow or not, so they can take basics in religion of their paticular liking. 4: After taking the basics in a specific religion, they can then either choose a denomanation, or take another course that focuses on different types of denomanations, so that they can have a general idea what each denomanation belives in,so that choosing can be more easier. I dont know about church and state government wise, but I think that it should be kept at a minimal, since religion we put our faith in G-d, In the state, we put our faith (sadly) in politicians.




Force Recon

Semper fidelis

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10th July 2004

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#10 15 years ago

in Muslim countries:I believe religion should play a role in the society,sometimes religions are misapplied by corrupt people.

Bush:God told me to invade Afghanistan and Iraq. Blair:I prayed to God before invading and He alone will judge me.

:vikki:

its a sad thing that western leaders are saying things like this.