Kenya's political crisis 18 replies

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masked_marsoe VIP Member

Heaven's gonna burn your eyes

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16th April 2005

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#1 10 years ago

Kenya has been until recently one of the few African nations the others looked up to. It was relatively corruption-free, with a secure economy, and a relatively stable and vibrant democracy.

So for Kenya too to be dragged down into ethnic cleansing is a sad day for all Africa, especially those in East Africa who had looked to Kenya to provide a path to follow.

If you don't know the story so far, it goes a little like this: The ruling Party of National Unity (PNU) seeks to have the President Kibaki re-elected. The opposition is the ODM, and its leader Odinga. The election is held, but with some major discrepancies including;

  • Some electorates have extremely high turnouts - one had 115% turnout, and another had ~3,000 extra voters
  • Voters (including a presidential candidate) go missing off voters lists
  • Return forms not signed or missing in 44/210 electorates
  • Documents missing Electoral Commision stamps in most electorates
  • Parliamentary votes transferred to presidential candidates

If that wasn't bad enough, the political crisis soon spread along ethnic lines. Kibaki and Odinga are from rival major tribes, and soon in some mixed-ethnic areas (especially the Rift Valley), ethnic violence and reported ethnic cleansing broke out. However, the violence is mostly still political, but exacerbated by the ethnic tensions.

The Kenyan Police have been given shoot-to-kill orders to shut down the violence, and soldiers patrol troubled towns.

Two ODM politicians have been killed, one by "unknown criminals", and the other by police, as well as between 800 and 1,000 people.

There are two major hotspots - the Rift Valley city of Nakuru, and the Nairobi slum of Kibera. I have been to Kibera, and it is beyond my ability to really describe, but the bleeding sores of Africa are open there. It has its promises too though, as hundreds of thousands of rural Africans have come in to find a new life in Nairobi.

How can these politico-ethnic conflicts be resolved? Does Kenya need a new leader, another Jomo Kenyatta to unite the people, or can a democratic solution to Kenya's problems be found?




Blank Stare

AE

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24th July 2004

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#2 10 years ago

How could you honestly not expect something like this?

Africa is fucked. It has always been fucked. It will continue to be fucked.

No amount of money, not the thirty million President Bush promised to send to Africa in his State of the Union Address, or even thirty trillion will ever solve their problems.

How many examples of genocide, corruption, murder, and rape do you need to realize Africa is a lost cause.

It was like this before European colonization, during, and after colonization.

This isn't even news, it's expected.




Locomotor

in spite of erosion

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13th May 2004

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#3 10 years ago

I don't know a whole lot about Kenyan politics. I have read about a good many atrocities that this election dispute has brought, sad stuff.

Hopefully things can straighten themselves out before too long.




NCC1017spock

I take what n0e says way too seriously

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25th April 2007

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#4 10 years ago

in the next 100 years africa should either join the rest of the world or it peoples and countries should perish, for they are majorly are holding back the rest of the world, as one of the largest countients in the world they are the least civilized and "evolved" of the Human race. NOTE: this dosen't not apply to South Africa (the country south africa) Also note that I believe at all first and second world countries should ruel the world together, thrid and fourth world countries should be eliminated, or over thrown. (this means NATO-US allies, also including Russia its allies and comunists country like North korea and China should also be left in power for the time being) How ever countries like Iran, Iraq, Vietnam, Argentina, (later North Korea), pakistan, afghanistan and almost all African country should either step up or step out, cuase soon powerful countries like Russia, USA, England, Germany, (many European countries) Brazil, and India are not gona have any stomach for these failing countries and will have the "removed" and they "successful countries will grown expand and become greater, hopefully leading to a United Earth, but I wont get into that now. I do not mean to offened any one by this it is simply my opinion, my views and my beliefes, there is a great deal of countries I left out on both sides but like I said this is not directed to any one person but a countries government as a whole, not its peoples, or militaries and/or people native to these countries currently living in other countries.




T3h Piti

Where is this.

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9th March 2007

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#5 10 years ago

You do realize there is a.... hm how should i say this..... it's rather something close to....A Genocide in africa

Belgium came in, used 2 tribes to get materials, one ordered the other. Belgium leaves and gives power to the workers and the original workers are now left in hell, getting killed.....

Most of Africa is a mess, and not a single Powerful Nation is doing anything to stop it....

We send armed troops into the streets, they'll run, honestly what is a machete gonna do against an armed troop?

We either help soon, or its gonna spread, once the cleansing is done, it might spread, but the cleansing will never be done.

The Powerful Countries need to do something NOW




EO Violation

If you ain't Cav, you ain't...

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6th October 2007

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#6 10 years ago

I sure would like to know what your "something" entails.




NCC1017spock

I take what n0e says way too seriously

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25th April 2007

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#7 10 years ago

well at least some one agrees with me, but I am refering to completly and forcly over whelm any country and taking it over, remoing it off the map. Killing off the government, milatry and other amred forces, and make citizens into peple of the takeing over country. But this is a very Imperialist view of things, to me I think a long state of Empire is needed beore peace can be made, and so united earth can be formed, but before all that the wolrd must all be brought up to the "same tech level" either by impoving the failing countries that would take 200-300 years, or take them over in about 20-30, and I mean all of them. Here is my plan: 1. blockade countries by sea and air, shot down transport air craft, sink transport ships. 2. invade county. 3. nuke the capitals of all the bordering countires. 4. invade nuke countries. 5. and keep doing this as many time as needed (for atleast the USA has more then enough power needed to do this) 6. any other african country that has a problem with this will get there capital nuked, (not south africa, they a civilizied-smart-non eating each other poeple. If this a followed by all first and second world counties things will go very quickly and mostly all thrid and fourth world countries will be eliminated in 20-40 years. The one this is that the countries (USA impaticluarly cant not be affirad to do this and the larger super power must not attack each other, for then the plan fall apart) the only other possibilty is to do what we do In Iraq, and that (for all of africa) will coast 100's of millions of lives not needed to be lost. SO it is almost out of the question. the is one more random, far out possibilty that (if there is a world war 3) that every country in the world will take = damage, and will all be brought to the same tech level, sort-of-say. (sorry for and typo's along the way) I am a bad typer :p




Karst

I chose an eternity of this

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6th January 2005

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#8 10 years ago
NCC1017spock;4191999well at least some one agrees with me, but I am refering to completly and forcly over whelm any country and taking it over, remoing it off the map. Killing off the government, milatry and other amred forces, and make citizens into peple of the takeing over country. But this is a very Imperialist view of things, to me I think a long state of Empire is needed beore peace can be made, and so united earth can be formed, but before all that the wolrd must all be brought up to the "same tech level" either by impoving the failing countries that would take 200-300 years, or take them over in about 20-30, and I mean all of them. Here is my plan: 1. blockade countries by sea and air, shot down transport air craft, sink transport ships. 2. invade county. 3. nuke the capitals of all the bordering countires. 4. invade nuke countries. 5. and keep doing this as many time as needed (for atleast the USA has more then enough power needed to do this) 6. any other african country that has a problem with this will get there capital nuked, (not south africa, they a civilizied-smart-non eating each other poeple. If this a followed by all first and second world counties things will go very quickly and mostly all thrid and fourth world countries will be eliminated in 20-40 years. The one this is that the countries (USA impaticluarly cant not be affirad to do this and the larger super power must not attack each other, for then the plan fall apart) the only other possibilty is to do what we do In Iraq, and that (for all of africa) will coast 100's of millions of lives not needed to be lost. SO it is almost out of the question. the is one more random, far out possibilty that (if there is a world war 3) that every country in the world will take = damage, and will all be brought to the same tech level, sort-of-say. (sorry for and typo's along the way) I am a bad typer :p

What you are suggesting is probably the most horrible thing I've ever heard anyone suggest in my time on the forums. There is NO justification for the genocide you are suggesting, not to mention no benefits or gains for anyone. Suggesting genocide is not an "opinion" that anyone's entitled to have, it is a crime. What you're saying is basically that the lesser races or peoples should be purged from the world, and that makes you no better than Hitler.

People like you make me sick. /rant

Anyway, ontopic, I think the only functioning solution would be a coalition deal between Kibaki and Odinga. If either one gets power, the other side won't have it, so they should have to share it. Might not work out very well but I can't see any other government solution working out....




NCC1017spock

I take what n0e says way too seriously

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25th April 2007

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#9 10 years ago

well, it all depends on what country you live in to, but that is just my far fetched idea of an Imperial world. I dont "think" it will ever have to come to this, but its kinda a last resort...? You get what I mean? (AND ITS MY OPINION) last time I checked we are aloud to share our OWN opinions But I also respect yours, do see that it can be a bit heavy on the killing side. on topic yes... I to believe they should share and to save the cournty form civil war, do you think it might be a wise Idea to temporaily slit the country? leaving on half in the hands of Kibiki and other half in Odinga? but on there other hand that might start a civil war? And not to go into this again but US troops could be sent to balance things out and bring the rightful (or who they thing is better) leader to power. But didn't Kenya used to be part of the french? So there for it would be better for them to handle it, if kenya is unable to them selves? what do you guys think?




Karst

I chose an eternity of this

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6th January 2005

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#10 10 years ago
NCC1017spock;4192539well, it all depends on what country you live in to, but that is just my far fetched idea of an Imperial world. I dont "think" it will ever have to come to this, but its kinda a last resort...? You get what I mean? (AND ITS MY OPINION) last time I checked we are aloud to share our OWN opinions But I also respect yours, do see that it can be a bit heavy on the killing side.

I cannot under any circumstances accept supporting genocide as an "opinion". It's one of those things that is universally considered wrong. There is no justification for that.

I to believe they should share and to save the cournty form civil war, do you think it might be a wise Idea to temporaily slit the country? leaving on half in the hands of Kibiki and other half in Odinga? but on there other hand that might start a civil war?

I doubt that would bring stability as further division is precisely what the country does not want. It should instead be shown that these ethnic groups can get along together; so a coalition makes sense (to me).

And not to go into this again but US troops could be sent to balance things out and bring the rightful (or who they thing is better) leader to power. But didn't Kenya used to be part of the french? So there for it would be better for them to handle it, if kenya is unable to them selves? what do you guys think?

That's about as counter-productive as it can get. The only kind of unification of different ethnicities such an action could possibly bring, is to drive out the common enemy. Kenya is an autonomous country that certainly would not agree to have foreign soldiers to "balance" the situation, so the country would basically have to be invaded, which we all work is a black hole for human and financial resources, not to mention that it would only amplify the suffering of the Kenyans. If a foreign power really wants to intervene, they should spend money that they could spend on a military intervention, on aid. If they had done this in Iraq, they could have bought a large mansion for every single family in the entire country. Seems a better way to bring stability than with military effort....




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