Laws, Tax & The "unworthy" Government 10 replies

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Flash525

The Carbon Comrade

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14th July 2004

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#1 10 years ago

I hate it. Simply said. I don't know what the rates are in other countries, but the UK rate is like 24% or 26%.. Can't remember which, but lets say 25% on average. That means, say you'd earn £1000 per month, you'd only actually get £750, and the other £250 would go to the government, so they can sit back watching thugs roam the streets, and send troops in to foreign countries to blow shit up. Seriously? Yes this is a serious rant and rave (we really need a sub-forum section for this), but Tax is a joke. Tax generally goes toward everything that the government needs money for. Such as the Police, Fire Brigade, Dustbin Men, Road Repairs, Military etc etc The Police are a joke in Britain I think. I'm pretty sure everyone knows by now of the recent knife attacks in London and (I think) Manchester.. They aren't the only ones, but the most common. Seems the Police don't do that good a job with it. Then you've got Jails. Why does the government deem it necessary for us (the general civilian community) to pay for Murderers, Rapists and Paedophiles etc to be taken into a Prison, where they can enjoy daytime Television, have free Food and Water, and the odd Pool / Snooker table. We pay for them to live in a life somewhat of luxury. Why? Simple Alternative: Hang the Fuckers. I'm sorry, but why do we allow these people those sort of privileges? Generally laws are there for a reason, that being, not to be broken. I would personally reserve jails for people who commit minor crimes (such as robbery, drug dealers, or minor-assault). Keep them off the streets yeah, but keep the major criminals alive and well, why? I know this subject has been touched upon before, about whether someone may execute the wrong person (an innocent one perhaps), but for me, it would be a really simple case of executing them if they're found to be 110% guilty. I've not got a problem with the Fire Brigade, generally they do pretty well (it is rare you hear people complain about them). The only other one that would really go here is the NHS and Ambulance Service, I guess they do the best they can with what they've got. Then you've got those people 'who work for the counsil'... more like 'louse around for the counsel'. Seriously, the amount of times I have gone out, and seen those people who tidy up bushes, cut grass etc just lousing around drinking a coffee (not at your typical coffee break time either) is a joke. They're effectively getting paid by us, for doing nothing. Same with road workers, they seem to do a lot of standing around. Hell, they don't even seem to know what they're doing half the time. There is a road not far from me which they've started work on (again).. This road has to be one of the most dug up ones in bloody Europe, and they're still going at it. Then you've got the Military... I am all for protecting Britain, but sending troops off to a foreign country, especially the amount they have at the moment is pathetic. It was on the news the other day, that four (I think) British troops died in Afghanistan, it then went on to say that they were 'part-time' troops, who were stationed at a very large military base, of which had LOADS of personnel, who were doing NOTHING. They're just 'there' at the base... I would go onto immigrants too, but I'll end up writing for Britain. Therefore, this would be the end of my little rant. Tax is a joke. The average person gets up every morning, goes to work, does their job (of which can sometimes be stressful and suchlike), then comes home. Does this for a month, gets their wage packet, and gets 3/4's of what they're actually entitled too. They work for the money, yet they don't get it. And to think, a lot of them probably don't feel safe walking home alone at night. I know I don't, and we / I should. If this country was up to the high standards that we effectively pay for, people shouldn't have no need to worry.




Relander

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#2 10 years ago

Well first off, there are a huge number of other things on which tax money is used than just on police, fire brigades etc. For example:

- Education - Health Care - Social services - Employment services - Administration - Foreign Aid - Culture - Housing

And second off if you really don't like taxes in a sense that they are needed, the second option is a night-watchman state where there's only a police, fire brigade, military and possibly very basic emergency health care and infrastructure services with 5% tax rate or less.

P.S. You really have a humane outlook in life.




Dreadnought[DK] VIP Member

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#3 10 years ago

You know what I pay? I pay 38% and I'm on the low income level. When I begin to earn more, my tax rate rises to 60%. That's right, sixty percent of my earnings. That alot, in fact it about the highest in the world. But I don't mind, and you know why? In return for my tax money, I get the welfare state. - My education is free (from elementary school to university - hell I even get a government grant) - Healthcare is free, so if something happens to me, I don't have to worry about insurance (and I don't have to sign 15 things on a clip board) - The state helps take care of my old grand mother on 96.

And that's just some of it.

... And the good thing is that it applies to everyone in the country, high and low. Does this sound like a jubilant post? Well, it is because I know why I pay it, and I'm happy to pay it.




Flash525

The Carbon Comrade

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#4 10 years ago
Relander;4393563Well first off, there are a huge number of other things on which tax money is used than just on police, fire brigades etc.[/quote]I didn't list all of them intentionally. It is only some of the the ones I listed that I have a problem with, others were named as examples.
Relander;4393563- Education[/quote]Teaching kids to use Knifes and have Sex underage... They might as well teach that at School these days. [quote=Relander;4393563]- Employment services
Is a Joke! [quote=Relander;4393563]And second off if you really don't like taxes in a sense that they are needed, the second option is a night-watchman state where there's only a police, fire brigade, military and possibly very basic emergency health care and infrastructure services with 5% tax rate or less. P.S. You really have a humane outlook in life.

I wouldn't mind paying taxes so much, if we actually benefited from them, like we're suppose too. Its like I said, we pay tax to keep crime off our streets, yet there is plenty of it about. The education system doesn't seem to be running at its full potential either.




Relander

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#5 10 years ago
TycoonTeaching kids to use Knifes and have Sex underage... They might as well teach that at School these days.

There's not a single school in the UK that teach those things and we both know it.

Is a Joke!

Could you give some proper, actually factual arguments for this claim?

I wouldn't mind paying taxes so much, if we actually benefited from them, like we're suppose too.

Well you do benefit, the funny thing is that most people aren't content what they already have or see the positives, all what people see is what they lack and the negatives (best theater to see this is when asking people's opinions about politics). And if you're not happy with the way the money is used, then voice your opinion and vote for a political party which represents your views the best way or take action in a party or citizen organization yourself.




Nemmerle Forum Mod

Voice of joy and sunshine

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#6 10 years ago

Worked out on a national level more than 42% [1] of our income goes to the government. For 155 days every year apparently all the income for the average person in this nation goes to the government. Yay.

The problem is not the amount of money that the government has, the problem is the dreadful mishandling of it. For as long as I can remember the only way the government has tried fixing things has been to throw more money at it, release it to private companies, or making decisions it clearly has no clue or business making.

This is unfourtunately the consequencies when you allow people without qualifications or experience in the relevant area to be placed in charge of it. It's like handing a gun to a two year old and watching to see what happens. I'm sorry, really I am, but if you want to handle the budget - fine off to uni for you, and don't come back until you have a doctorate in economics. Want to decide on self defence moves for the police? Five years of service in the police as a TSG officer and you'd better be able to prove you're reasonably skilled at fighting afterwards too. Allowing just any moron to be elected or placed into a seat of power is folly.

They've nigh on crippled the police force following the above model. 'Airwaves' for instance, the new police radio system. Really expensive for the police budget since they have to pay a third party company to provide it to them; really poor level of service to the point where it cuts things off when you start talking and so on.) Body armour that you can see simply by looking rarely fits. Training that's clearly all too limited by government regulations. Even the police databases aren't integrated. When you move from one police area to another your information doesn't go with you. So when someone looks you up on the national computer they only get some of the information. It's ridiculous, the information is already on a database. Obviously you can never have a police force that catches everyone, nor would you want it were it possible, but just the same it could be better if the government would make some reasonably simple decisions and stop fucking about with it.

Which brings us to the justice system further up the line and the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS.) What a bunch of numpty twats. Probably because they're not really accountable for their jobs. That could do with some changing. Keep screwing up: get reported by the police force for keeping lossing cases. Get fired and stripped of your authority to practice law. See how effective they become after a few metaphorical beheadings.

Even higher up there just need to be harsher penalties when someone's convicted. You can get away with six months for beating someone on to the floor, sometimes not even that.

Eh, I could go on to other areas, education, the NHS, etc. But I just can't be arsed.

The problem is not the taxes, at least not of themselves. The problem is that they're so dreadfully abused. With proper management you could do so much more with so much less. But we don't have that, we have the fuck up that british model governments invariably make of everyone's money.

Relander;4393596There's not a single school in the UK that teach those things and we both know it.

Not from the teachers perhaps, but there are certainly schools where it's taught.




UNDIESRULES

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#7 10 years ago
Tycoon;4393501 Then you've got the Military... I am all for protecting Britain, but sending troops off to a foreign country, especially the amount they have at the moment is pathetic. It was on the news the other day, that four (I think) British troops died in Afghanistan, it then went on to say that they were 'part-time' troops, who were stationed at a very large military base, of which had LOADS of personnel, who were doing NOTHING. They're just 'there' at the base...

In defense of military, as you stated yourself, we dont have enough manpower to be fighting wars at present. The knock on effect is, though there are lots of people deployed abroad, there is no time to scratch your arse let alone do nothing. The reason we have part time soldiers deployed is because we need to make up the numbers.

Try not to listen to all the papers and tv tells you, most of it is nonsense.




Mr. Matt VIP Member

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#8 10 years ago

'Dreadnought[DK;4393574']You know what I pay? I pay 38% and I'm on the low income level. When I begin to earn more, my tax rate rises to 60%. That's right, sixty percent of my earnings. That alot, in fact it about the highest in the world. But I don't mind, and you know why? In return for my tax money, I get the welfare state. - My education is free (from elementary school to university - hell I even get a government grant) - Healthcare is free, so if something happens to me, I don't have to worry about insurance (and I don't have to sign 15 things on a clip board) - The state helps take care of my old grand mother on 96.

And that's just some of it.

... And the good thing is that it applies to everyone in the country, high and low. Does this sound like a jubilant post? Well, it is because I know why I pay it, and I'm happy to pay it.

You know, 'free' really is a misnomer. You're paying for all of those things and more with every penny you earn, and every penny you spend as well. Whether you want to or not - I'm fine with all of that stuff, but it's just this last part that is my concern. Whether you want to or not.




Admiral Donutz VIP Member

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#9 10 years ago

I will be short about this:

There is nothing wrong with taxes themselves. There may be something wrong about the tax system details (are certain areas overtaxes harming the economy by unbalancing things way too much for example?) and how taxes are spent. The state needs your money, it needs your money to provide you and your countrymen with benefits that otherwise would be hard to have (as easy) access to. If you think that the current administration is wasting the tax incomes then vote for a party which has a more sound plan on how to spent taxes. If there isn't any: Start lobbying or start your own party if you are really frustrated and you think things will have to change.

I have to agree though that it isn't a good thing when people make up policies without any knowledge whatsoever. Policies must be based on solid facts, advices and knowledge. That is why you have a whole load of goverment officials who handle all the calculations and so on. That is also why the goverment hires or inquires feedback and reports/investigation from external sources incase their own departments lack the neccesary knowledge or could do with some feedback. Sometimes they do sadly screw up, be it because of group thinking (they all nod and narrow mindly head in a direction while they should know better) or other things. But overall they do (atleast try) to cough up a regit report/advice. Which is then passed on to the parliament to be voted upon. It's members often have attended university and therefor certainly aren't complete idiots. They may lack knowledge in a specific field however but assuming that they have a reasonably IQ and commom sense they should be able to make an educated decision on any matter at hand.

Sure, the goverment sometimes screw up. And sure other areas of authority sometimes fail. But they like failing just as much as you do so they will try to do better next time. If they are truely incompetent, vote for a party that aims at changes in authority to improve (in yourb opinion) their competenace.




Flash525

The Carbon Comrade

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#10 10 years ago
'Dreadnought[DK;4393574']Does this sound like a jubilant post? Well, it is because I know why I pay it, and I'm happy to pay it.[/quote]Each to their own I guess, but to know that 60% of your wages are going elsewhere... That would drive me mad. 25% is bad enough for me.
Relander;4393596There's not a single school in the UK that teach those things and we both know it.[/quote]I didn't mean that as such (even though Nemmerle made a good point). What I meant was, Schools (and Parents, and The Police) aren't doing enough to make sure that people don't learn of violence.
Relander;4393596Could you give some proper, actually factual arguments for this claim?[/quote]by Employment Services, you mean Job Centers and Job Agencies, right? If so, my answer of 'is a joke' was said because I have had very little luck with them in the past. They've messed me about so much, that I find the idea of them a joke.
Relander;4393596And if you're not happy with the way the money is used, then voice your opinion and vote for a political party which represents your views the best way or take action in a party or citizen organization yourself.
Admiral Donutz;4394446Sure, the goverment sometimes screw up. And sure other areas of authority sometimes fail. But they like failing just as much as you do so they will try to do better next time. If they are truely incompetent, vote for a party that aims at changes in authority to improve (in yourb opinion) their competenace.
As unfortunate as it is, there is not a single party that is actually 'beneficial' for all. All the public can do, is to vote for the best of the worst. [quote=Nemmerle;4393606]The problem is not the amount of money that the government has, the problem is the dreadful mishandling of it. For as long as I can remember the only way the government has tried fixing things has been to throw more money at it, release it to private companies, or making decisions it clearly has no clue or business making. The problem is not the taxes, at least not of themselves. The problem is that they're so dreadfully abused. With proper management you could do so much more with so much less. But we don't have that, we have the fuck up that british model governments invariably make of everyone's money. [quote=Admiral Donutz;4394446]There is nothing wrong with taxes themselves. There may be something wrong about the tax system details (are certain areas overtaxes harming the economy by unbalancing things way too much for example?) and how taxes are spent. The state needs your money, it needs your money to provide you and your countrymen with benefits that otherwise would be hard to have (as easy) access to. If you think that the current administration is wasting the tax incomes then vote for a party which has a more sound plan on how to spent taxes. If there isn't any: Start lobbying or start your own party if you are really frustrated and you think things will have to change.
:Agreed In regards to the jury system too, as you've said Nemmerle, they keep screwing up. Not only the other day did a Judge allow one of Osama's right hand men to have bail. I mean, what the fuck? [quote=UNDIESRULES;4394108]Try not to listen to all the papers and tv tells you, most of it is nonsense.

A lot of it is nonsense yes, but there is truth in some of it.




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