Malaysian Airlines plane shot down over Ukraine 13 replies

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Rikupsoni

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#1 4 years ago

BBC News - LIVE: Ukraine airliner 'crash' updates

That's pretty big news, early reports came just 30 minutes ago. Ukrainian officials blame pro-Russian insurgents' BUK M1 anti-aircraft missile shooting the plane from 10,000 meters or 33,000 feet.

Makes you wonder why airliners aren't avoiding Ukrainian airspace though. Just earlier today I read a post criticizing using Ukrainian airspace for Finland-Greece flights and then this happened.

Out of all airlines, it happened to be Malaysian Airlines that still have that missing place. The plane had 295 passengers on board.

The BBC analysts said there will be diplomatic ramifications for Russia for this, as Russia has supplied the rebels with missiles.




Serio VIP Member

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#2 4 years ago

Needs to be pointed out that the reports of a missile aren't confirmed, though it seems the most likely cause. BBC also just now reported the separatists claim to have found the black box. If that's true, any investigation into the crash will be hindered if not impossible. They won't hand it over if they caused the crash in the first place.




Rikupsoni

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#3 4 years ago
Serio;5742233Needs to be pointed out that the reports of a missile aren't confirmed, though it seems the most likely cause. BBC also just now reported the separatists claim to have found the black box. If that's true, any investigation into the crash will be hindered if not impossible. They won't hand it over if they caused the crash in the first place.

Yep, it crashed in the rebel-controlled area. Russian TV channels had access to the area. To me it looks like it will only make more bad PR for Russia if the investigation is hindered and falsified.




Serio VIP Member

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#4 4 years ago

Indeed. It really boggles the mind how Russia can save its ass if that ends up happening. If they try to alter the data before handing it over to the IATA or whoever, the investigators will know. If they refuse to hand it over, it will be evidence against Russia. Of course, if they hand it over, the truth will get out.

There's no way Russia or the separatists can manipulate it. It's too public, and there are too many eyes on them now.

Ukraine claims there are armed gunmen on the site preventing investigators from accessing it, but the reports are unconfirmed.

I think, in this situation, it's important to take everything Russia, the rebels, and Ukraine say with a grain of salt. Each side has an angle. They all want something.

EDIT: There are more unverifiable reports. I'll list them below;

A Spanish speaking airspace controller in Borislov claims there were three jets following the plane before it disappeared. (SOURCE: https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489841526005321729 )

The Ukrainian Security Service has published a recording it says it intercepted between separatists, where they talk about shooting down a civilian plane. (SOURCE: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-28354787 See Below)

20:23: The Ukrainian Security Service SBU has published on its Youtube account what it says are intercepted conversations between pro-Russian militants in which they say they admit shooting down a civilian plane, BBC Monitoring reports.



Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#5 4 years ago

If it was at a reasonable altitude then it probably wouldn't have been taken down by a manpad. I suspect the heat signature of a missile launched after it would show up if anyone had an appropriately equipped satellite looking in the right direction at the time.




Serio VIP Member

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#6 4 years ago

It has been confirmed the plane was indeed shot down by a missile. The identities of passengers are slowly being released, including several AIDS researchers, a WHO spokesperson, and a Dutch senator. Besides Dutch, the plane also carried several Australians, Germans, Belgians, Britons, Indonesians, Malaysians, and a Canadian. From what I can find, the nationality of 47 individuals are still unaccounted for.

The step-grandmother of Malaysia's prime minister is also reported to have perished in the crash of MH17.

The BBC has posted transcripts of the recordings published by the SBU. They include a voice identified as Russia Colonel Vasily Geranin: BBC News - MH17 crash: Ukraine releases alleged intercepts




Rikupsoni

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#7 4 years ago

10,000 meters or 33,000 ft is far beyond the range of shoulder-launched or MANPAD AA-missiles. Indeed the missile must have been BUK aka SA-11, and there have been videos of the rebels moving the BUK vehicles in eastern Ukraine.

BUK is a pretty advanced system and the only way they could have got them is straight from Russia or stolen from the Ukrainian army. But there's no way you could teach a group of insurgents to use an advanced anti-aircraft missile system just like that. The BUK requires an additional radar unit and some kind of a command centre as well. Those kind of professionals must come from the Russian army. Indeed, the "rebel leader" in question is a former Russian military intelligence unit GRU member.

It's a proxy war. Essentially the plane was shot down by Russian proxy troops and thereby the blame rests there.




MrFancypants Forum Admin

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#8 4 years ago

I guess we can't rule out that it was an Ukrainian missile yet, but all the information released so far points at separatists helped by Russian (ex?) military.

The Russian response is interesting as well. They were quick to point out that the Ukraine downed a Russian jet in 2001 and there is a conspiracy theory that Putin's plane, which has similar markings, was flying towards Russian the same day. I really doubt that Putin would fly over a warzone where both sides have capable AA missiles.




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#9 4 years ago

The conspiracy theory was actually started by RT, Russia's state media.

Meanwhile, the entire situation continues to deteriorate. The separatists have essnetially blocked off the site and are refusing rescuers/recovery workers the access they need, which means the remains are left to decompose. The Dutch Prime Minister has given Russia one last chance to show they're serious about helping recovery efforts; Dutch PM warns Putin on 'last chance' to help with plane disaster: Thomson Reuters Business News - MSN Money

In the Netherlands, anger is rising as the recovery efforts are failing. Additionally, Germany, Australia, and the United Kingdom have put their support behind the Netherlands.

On the speculation side, the Pentagon have said they're all but certain the missile couldn't have been fired without the help of trained Russian professionals; Pentagon: Russia helped deploy missile that hit plane

And you should take this next piece with a grain of salt, coming from Ukraine, but we'll have to wait and see what the evidence is. Ukraine claims they have, as said, solid evidence that Russia was directly involved: Ukraine says has 'compelling evidence' of Russian role in airline disaster

And finally, some rather chilling news for Singapore Airlines. Apparently SQ351/SIA351, which suffered a 15 minute departure delay in Copenhagen, was a mere 30 kilometres away from MH17 when it was shot down: http://cphpost.dk/news/copenhagen-plane-was-flying-next-to-ukraine-plane-crash.10248.html




Serio VIP Member

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#10 4 years ago

The conspiracy theory was actually started by RT, Russia's state media.

Meanwhile, the entire situation continues to deteriorate. The separatists have essnetially blocked off the site and are refusing rescuers/recovery workers the access they need, which means the remains are left to decompose. The Dutch Prime Minister has given Russia one last chance to show they're serious about helping recovery efforts; Dutch PM warns Putin on 'last chance' to help with plane disaster: Thomson Reuters Business News - MSN Money

In the Netherlands, anger is rising as the recovery efforts are failing. Additionally, Germany, Australia, and the United Kingdom have put their support behind the Netherlands.

On the speculation side, the Pentagon have said they're all but certain the missile couldn't have been fired without the help of trained Russian professionals; Pentagon: Russia helped deploy missile that hit plane

And you should take this next piece with a grain of salt, coming from Ukraine, but we'll have to wait and see what the evidence is. Ukraine claims they have, as said, solid evidence that Russia was directly involved: Ukraine says has 'compelling evidence' of Russian role in airline disaster

And finally, some rather chilling news for Singapore Airlines. Apparently SQ351/SIA351, which suffered a 15 minute departure delay in Copenhagen, was a mere 30 kilometres away from MH17 when it was shot down: http://cphpost.dk/news/copenhagen-plane-was-flying-next-to-ukraine-plane-crash.10248.html




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