My perspective on humanity. 16 replies

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Flodgy

I'm way cooler than n0e (who isn't though?)

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27th May 2004

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#1 10 years ago

As of lately folks, I've been having one hell of a philosophical debate with myself, and only sharing parts of to those I trust. This is long winded, so please bear with me and read it from start to finish before jumping the gun.

My parents raised me with pretty good morales, I feel I have a clear distinction of what could be right, wrong, in between with the shades of gray, and so on and so forth. If I ever have to judge something, I try to find both sides of the coin, fill in the gaps in my knowledge and look at the situation objectively. I was never hidden or sheltered from what went on in the world. If a woman was raped or a person was butchered on the street, it was explained to me in the best possible way that I would understand, regardless of my age.

Now days, I find it difficult to watch the news, read the paper or participate in such intellectual discussions on these boards. They just anger me to no ends at the naivety and ignorance people portray. This isn't to place myself above others, not in any way, but at times there are clear examples of this, as I'm sure you've seen. Many of the events and things that occur on this planet incite anger, the blind following a good deal of America does, not condemning all of you, but if Iraq isn't that popular amongst the people of the nation, why did the United States Military exceed their recruitment quota in a majority of their branches? Source.

Another issue is religion. Please do not use this as an excuse to debate it, we have a thread for it. This is merely my thoughts in relation to my topic. I was raised as a Christian under the Uniting Church. For reasons of my own I left it around half way through my high-school years as I began to question many of the motives of the Church and the content of the Bible. I'd witness many people each Sunday service who simply wore the Christian label so that it gave them the comfort that they would go to Heaven simply thanks to their faith. Yet, in reality, they were all sinners. I am in no way bashing Christianity here, the morales that are held and spoken of are great things to have, at least, in my opinion. If you were to follow many of the beliefs indicated in the Bible, I'd say you were a pretty good person. Not because you followed the bible, but because you did the right thing (hopefully you understand that.) The notion of following the Bible however still has one problem that persists for me. I feel that many of its values are out of date and simply do not fit in today's modern world. One of my friends I confessed this thought too simply got angry, and said I was an idiot for condemning it. That leads us to my next issue.

Many of the people I consider friends are very shallow people. There are only one or two I would consider deep or somewhat complex. A majority of them are selfish, very narrow minded and quick to anger. That also have a rather bad habit of binge drinking. I have a group of other friends that I do hang around with, but they are not immediately close, and I only get to see them on the odd time. A good example; Recently a friend told me he hated authority. When asked why he said that "he just did." In response to this I told him that he didn't hate authority, but those who hold positions of it and abuse it. The irony here is, he wishes to be a Police Officer once graduating. His answer was "well I like the idea of power." Figure that one out for yourself, it isn't that hard.

After going to a leadership conference a few years ago it became my ultimate goal to do some form of humanitarian work and help others. My life has been pretty good so far, and if I play my cards right it will stay that way, somewhat. Why not help others in need? Unfortunately we aren't all equal. Politics and human nature assure that will never occur.

Thankyou to those of you who stuck this far. I recently read the translated version of Andrzej Sapkowski's "The Witcher", and there is a brilliant quote in there that more or less sums up what I think the world has become:

"People," Geralt turned his head, "like to invent monsters and monstrosities. Then they seem less monstrous themselves. When they get blind-drunk, cheat, steal, beat their wives, starve an old woman, when they kill a trapped fox with an axe or riddle the last existing unicorn with arrows, they like to think that the Bane entering cottages at daybreak is more monstrous than they are. They feel better then. They find it easier to live."

I know there are good people out there, and that they dedicate their lives to bettering others. Those people should be admired to all ends, those are the heroes society needs to hear about. Not celebrities who got knocked up, not a crooked politician involved in some complex affair, but those that inspire good in other people.

So, what are your thoughts? I know that's a wall of text. But to anyone who can offer an opinion or insight or a simple agreement with what I had to say, it would be greatly appreciated.




Nemmerle Forum Mod

Voice of joy and sunshine

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26th May 2003

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#2 10 years ago

My parents are very 'moral' people and have tried to teach that to me. Unfortunately I find that when I think about it I don't believe in their morality, or indeed any morality whatsoever. What are right and wrong? Can you hold them up to me? They have no objective existence, they're simply social concepts used for control. Even looking at how people apply conventional morality I find it to be self contradicting in most cases. What weight does a man's opinion that life is sacred have, with bearing on say the issue of abortion, while he drives a big SUV and allows many to die through lack of medicines in the third world? I don't find it to have any. Even was his morality consistent all it would mean is that he would act in defence of it, it wouldn’t become any more true. Some people find they can vest their moral faith in books or the words of parents/teachers and I find that slightly ridiculous, a lessening of a man. Especially when they contradict what you then claim to vest your faith in on such a transparent and regular basis. Personally I feel no need to 'better' the world. If people want a better lot for themselves then well enough. Off you go, make it yourselves, the current world isn't a problem for me. People are neither possible of true evil, nor of true goodness, since the concepts are themselves meaningless. People can be destructive, hypocritical, creative, honest, but it's all equal in terms of morality.

As far as morality goes I'll borrow another quote from The Last Wish. 'You ask what I believe in. I believe in the sword.' Force makes, in a quite literal sense, right and wrong. It is the main determining factor and is only ever moderated by reason in terms of its internal consistency.

Are people blind though? Most of the people I know are actually pretty smart. Perhaps because I don’t suffer myself to know idiots that often unless they’re useful at the time. Sure every now and then you come across an idiot but it’s reasonably rare. Most of the people I know go along with things because it’s less bother than changing them, and well enough that makes logical sense for most people. Just don’t complain about the lot you’ve chosen afterwards.




Darth Taxi

Abandonator

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6th May 2007

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#3 10 years ago

I say I agree with you in most of the points I would even positively repped you but I cant... However what I think is that helping people in any sence might lead to something worse than there was before even if we do not realise the consequences or if those consequencies are invisible, that's why I think helping is only a public act or act in which one helping has a good feeling...




Dot Com

I'm too cool to Post

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26th June 2000

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#4 10 years ago

The older you get, the more cynical and jaded with humanity you become.




D.Sporky!

God Send Death

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10th January 2004

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#5 10 years ago

Good words Flodgy, I especially liked your part on religion. The way I see it, there are very very few people that really honestly care for anyone or anything but themselves. Everything people do is done through selfish ambitions, and a desire to make ones self feel better. It is the things that make different people feel better that changes. Some people (politicians) only feel good when they hold as much power as they can possibly have, they is why the get into politics, not for their countries, but for themselves. Others (missionaries) might not feel ok with themselves unless they go to foreign countries trying to improve the foreigners way of life and teach them what they believe to be true, otherwise they will feel guilty all their lives for never following their "calling." And still others will only feel good about themselves if they have and raise a family according to their views. Everything is done through the selfish desire to feel better about oneself, right and wrong is just an illusion created by each individual. There is no solid right and wrong, for serial killers everything they are doing is right in their eyes, and they would not feel ok with themselves unless they were killing the people they kill. Their views of right and wrong, however, almost go against the agreed upon rights and wrongs of the society in which they live, that is why they are jailed and executed. So in the end, the only thing that makes one person better than another is how well that person knows what it is that makes him feel ok with himself, and how well he/she performs it.




Chemix2

Paladin: The Holy Knight

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16th March 2005

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#6 10 years ago

Perhaps it's just my blind hatred for myself, but I find it hard to believe that all I do is bent on making myself feel as I think I should feel. Logically, I should want myself to be happy, and should go to any lengths to ensure that constant, but logic is the way reality acts, usually. Humans are fickle creatures, and they do things often out of emotion, which more often than not, is illogical. Sometimes it hurts them, sometimes it helps them. I do my best to try and make others happy, though I often fail, and I can't really say that I get that much out of it, no respect is earned in 9/10 cases, nothing is given to me in 9.9999/10 cases, and in 9/10 cases, I don't feel any better for it. I would hope that I'm not alone in my attempts at altruism, though I would wish that others wouldn't have to deal with the same illogical self defeating nature that I have come to endure.




Penguin_Unit

Uh-oh.

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8th May 2007

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#7 10 years ago

After reading Nemmerle's post, I am beginning to wonder why certain atheist people can express how they dislike what Hitler did, yet at the same time seem to think that evolution is acceptable and that there is no definite morality... My point? From that kind of point of view, Hitler would be excusable for what he did. What's my outlook on humanity, though? A degenerated, mainly selfish failure who seeks to make himself greater than his fellow humans and will stop at nothing to do so. Depressing, but that's what I think.




Nemmerle Forum Mod

Voice of joy and sunshine

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#8 10 years ago
Penguin_Unit;4388116After reading Nemmerle's post, I am beginning to wonder why certain atheist people can express how they dislike what Hitler did, yet at the same time seem to think that evolution is acceptable and that there is no definite morality... My point? From that kind of point of view, Hitler would be excusable for what he did.

Emotion and morality aren't necessarily the same thing. Dislike is an emotional perspective but not always a moral one.




Guest

I didn't make it!

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#9 10 years ago

I too question human actions, and I often think why? when I think of people preforming selfish acts, I ask myself, why? Because i realise, you're going to die, making others suffer isn't going to let you live any longer, and worsening their time here is just sick




MrFancypants Forum Admin

The Bad

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7th December 2003

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#10 10 years ago

Flodgy;4387237As of lately folks, I've been having one hell of a philosophical debate with myself, and only sharing parts of to those I trust. This is long winded, so please bear with me and read it from start to finish before jumping the gun.

My parents raised me with pretty good morales, I feel I have a clear distinction of what could be right, wrong, in between with the shades of gray, and so on and so forth. If I ever have to judge something, I try to find both sides of the coin, fill in the gaps in my knowledge and look at the situation objectively. I was never hidden or sheltered from what went on in the world. If a woman was raped or a person was butchered on the street, it was explained to me in the best possible way that I would understand, regardless of my age.

Now days, I find it difficult to watch the news, read the paper or participate in such intellectual discussions on these boards. They just anger me to no ends at the naivety and ignorance people portray. This isn't to place myself above others, not in any way, but at times there are clear examples of this, as I'm sure you've seen. Many of the events and things that occur on this planet incite anger, the blind following a good deal of America does, not condemning all of you, but if Iraq isn't that popular amongst the people of the nation, why did the United States Military exceed their recruitment quota in a majority of their branches? Source.

Another issue is religion. Please do not use this as an excuse to debate it, we have a thread for it. This is merely my thoughts in relation to my topic. I was raised as a Christian under the Uniting Church. For reasons of my own I left it around half way through my high-school years as I began to question many of the motives of the Church and the content of the Bible. I'd witness many people each Sunday service who simply wore the Christian label so that it gave them the comfort that they would go to Heaven simply thanks to their faith. Yet, in reality, they were all sinners. I am in no way bashing Christianity here, the morales that are held and spoken of are great things to have, at least, in my opinion. If you were to follow many of the beliefs indicated in the Bible, I'd say you were a pretty good person. Not because you followed the bible, but because you did the right thing (hopefully you understand that.) The notion of following the Bible however still has one problem that persists for me. I feel that many of its values are out of date and simply do not fit in today's modern world. One of my friends I confessed this thought too simply got angry, and said I was an idiot for condemning it. That leads us to my next issue.

Many of the people I consider friends are very shallow people. There are only one or two I would consider deep or somewhat complex. A majority of them are selfish, very narrow minded and quick to anger. That also have a rather bad habit of binge drinking. I have a group of other friends that I do hang around with, but they are not immediately close, and I only get to see them on the odd time. A good example; Recently a friend told me he hated authority. When asked why he said that "he just did." In response to this I told him that he didn't hate authority, but those who hold positions of it and abuse it. The irony here is, he wishes to be a Police Officer once graduating. His answer was "well I like the idea of power." Figure that one out for yourself, it isn't that hard.

After going to a leadership conference a few years ago it became my ultimate goal to do some form of humanitarian work and help others. My life has been pretty good so far, and if I play my cards right it will stay that way, somewhat. Why not help others in need? Unfortunately we aren't all equal. Politics and human nature assure that will never occur.

Thankyou to those of you who stuck this far. I recently read the translated version of Andrzej Sapkowski's "The Witcher", and there is a brilliant quote in there that more or less sums up what I think the world has become:

I know there are good people out there, and that they dedicate their lives to bettering others. Those people should be admired to all ends, those are the heroes society needs to hear about. Not celebrities who got knocked up, not a crooked politician involved in some complex affair, but those that inspire good in other people.

So, what are your thoughts? I know that's a wall of text. But to anyone who can offer an opinion or insight or a simple agreement with what I had to say, it would be greatly appreciated.[/quote] I don't think it is a good idea to feel frustrated about human stupidity, better regard it as a chance to educate people that may need a bit of educating. Since human stupidity is infinite you will probably avoid a lot of frustration that way.

[quote=Nemmerle;4387358]My parents are very 'moral' people and have tried to teach that to me. Unfortunately I find that when I think about it I don't believe in their morality, or indeed any morality whatsoever. What are right and wrong? Can you hold them up to me? They have no objective existence, they're simply social concepts used for control. Even looking at how people apply conventional morality I find it to be self contradicting in most cases. What weight does a man's opinion that life is sacred have, with bearing on say the issue of abortion, while he drives a big SUV and allows many to die through lack of medicines in the third world? I don't find it to have any. Even was his morality consistent all it would mean is that he would act in defence of it, it wouldn’t become any more true. Some people find they can vest their moral faith in books or the words of parents/teachers and I find that slightly ridiculous, a lessening of a man. Especially when they contradict what you then claim to vest your faith in on such a transparent and regular basis. Personally I feel no need to 'better' the world. If people want a better lot for themselves then well enough. Off you go, make it yourselves, the current world isn't a problem for me. People are neither possible of true evil, nor of true goodness, since the concepts are themselves meaningless. People can be destructive, hypocritical, creative, honest, but it's all equal in terms of morality.

As far as morality goes I'll borrow another quote from The Last Wish. 'You ask what I believe in. I believe in the sword.' Force makes, in a quite literal sense, right and wrong. It is the main determining factor and is only ever moderated by reason in terms of its internal consistency.

Morality is as real as we want it to be and the same goes for other concepts that are immaterial but readily accepted (e.g. currency). Even if you don't believe in it the effects are quite real. And even if many people are inconcistent about their morality that does not mean that their attempts at following some sort of moral code are wrong or inexistant.




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