New York Times criticises white women conservatives as "gender traitors" 12 replies

  • 1
  • 2

Please wait...

Nemmerle Forum Mod

Voice of joy and sunshine

298,667 XP

26th May 2003

0 Uploads

28,169 Posts

6 Threads

#11 1 month ago
Posted by Danny

I'm not a conservative, but uh, not sure what to say about this...

....

If women want to "stand by the patriarchy" , then they should be able to do so with out being labelled. The same applies to women who dont want to "stand by the patriarchy". Not sure why we have to give labels to everyone. The US is meant to be a democracy, so people regardless of gender, age, race should be able to vote the way they want without fear of a backlash. Or are they only allowed to vote without fear of backlash, as long as they vote how you want them to?


Labels allow people to form an enemy image and are consequently very desirable from the perspective of those whose 'contribution' to society, so to speak, is to create discord and profit from it. It's not really about the issues or the individual people, it's about having a story and locating yourself within it, and then using that story to simplify your perception of the world into friend and enemy around which every other issue can be reduced to very simple terms of allegiance.

It's unlikely, for these reasons, that anyone's ever going to have a reasonable debate about the standards of acceptable evidence in rape cases for example. Because on one side you've got morons who are all 'Hear and believe!' and on the other you've got morons who are all 'Well, she was drunk! She was wearing revealing clothing!' And those are... aspects of their identities at this point, they're ordering beliefs they apply to information. There are more reasonable individual between those points, but they don't tend to set the group norm for the relevant identity and the discussion on the part of opponents is always to some degree around that group norm.

A lot of the negative effects of public debate function in that sort of way, and you can tell because when you alter the variables the outcome changes:

If you remember back when the Gamer Gate stuff was going on, we were one of the few places that people from both sides came and agreed the debate was fair. And the reason for that was we had some thread-specific rules relating to requiring you to back up your statements with evidence, and disallowed generalisations in terms of identity. (e.g. you could say such and such a person said such and such a thing, and evidence that, but you couldn't generalise that out to Gamers X or SJWs Y.) We altered some of the underlying variables there and enforced that, and consequently we got a different outcome.


One of the things that I have at the back of my head is that ranking algorithms like YouTube, Facebook, Twitter etc play directly into this sort of identity based debate. They facilitate the construction of group-identity masquerading as debate. Take short snippets of information, and preferentially promote those that can just be dropped into beliefs that people have about identity. You make your own reality, and the algorithm confirms it by showing you what you'd expect to find, so you click on it and it rewards that part of you with more anger or whatever, so it promotes more to you, so....

It's a death-spiral for debate, and insofar as high-quality public debate is fundamental to generating reasonable compromise within society it's necessarily the death of functional democracy.

Politically, at the moment, the world is a terrifying place. Not because people are incapable of reason but because the underlying information infrastructure that facilitates the formation of groups to do things like following your favourite cat pictures, where that setup makes sense, is being used to try to resolve issues such as 'How do we decide on the relative rights and responsibilities as concerns relationships within society and how does homosexuality, by way of example, fit into that?' (Where it makes about as much sense as eating yogurt by licking it off the back of a rabid dog.)




Last edited by Nemmerle 1 month ago

AlDaja

Starfleet Command III mod developer/troubleshooter

409 XP

23rd January 2019

4 Uploads

20 Posts

2 Threads

#12 4 weeks ago

I identify as a grapefruit and find this entire conversation offensive.  I will now commence losing my sh't on any media platform that will support my agenda...maybe punch a cop in the face too or toss a trashcan threw a window. I am a brave, grapefruit.  You racist fruits get me sexy..or something.  Word....




Andron Taps Forum Mod

Faktrl is Best Pony

261,808 XP

10th September 2007

4 Uploads

21,762 Posts

1,754 Threads

#13 4 weeks ago
Posted by AlDaja

I identify as a grapefruit and find this entire conversation offensive.  I will now commence losing my sh't on any media platform that will support my agenda...maybe punch a cop in the face too or toss a trashcan threw a window. I am a brave, grapefruit.  You racist fruits get me sexy..or something.  Word....


What the hell was that?


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



  • 1
  • 2