Obama's stimulus funds going to imaginary zipcodes. 25 replies

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EO Violation

If you ain't Cav, you ain't...

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5th October 2007

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#1 8 years ago

And also failing to create any jobs!

Government authorized creative financing, yo.

http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2010/01/05/your-money-goes-to-imaginary-zip-codes/

http://newmexico.watchdog.org/2010/01/03/federal-stimulus-funds-reportedly-spent-in-nonexistent-zip-codes/

Closer examination of the latest recovery.gov report for New Mexico shows hundreds of thousands of dollars sent to and credited with creating jobs in zip codes that do not exist in New Mexico or anywhere else. Moreover, funds reported as being spent in New Mexico were given zip codes corresponding to areas in Washington and Oregon. The recovery.gov site reports that $373,874 was spent in zip code 97052. Unfortunately, this expenditure created zip jobs. But $36,218 was credited with creating 5 jobs in zip code 87258. A cool hundred grand went into zip code 86705, but didn’t result in even one person finding work.



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#2 8 years ago

n00b

Goddamn, can our best schools make good leaders anymore? First bush now a guy elected because of "change" and failed to act that different in comparison to what McCain would've done.




Warborg

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#3 8 years ago

Doesn't surprise me... at least with McCain we knew where the money was going(war).




Smitty025

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#4 8 years ago

You know, I used to get mad about stuff like this, but lately I've come to expect it. To be honest, in my view, it doesn't even matter. Even if all the money went to all the right people, it would have been no different. Economically the stimulus won't do anything in the long run. Sure, it may make it look like jobs and productivity have increased for a short time, but that illusion will quickly fade and we will be left with nothing but a monstrous debt to nations like China. In the end, it doesn't matter where the money goes or who got it. No matter what happened with it, the economy was going to be worse off.




RadioactiveLobster Forum Admin

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#5 8 years ago

Not surprising in the least...

The only people benefiting from all of our tax money is people the democrats (and some Republicans) have paid off, the Unions, and various other left wing organizations out there.

I hear ACORN made out quite well...


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MrFancypants Forum Admin

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#6 8 years ago
Smitty025;5190210You know, I used to get mad about stuff like this, but lately I've come to expect it. To be honest, in my view, it doesn't even matter. Even if all the money went to all the right people, it would have been no different. Economically the stimulus won't do anything in the long run. Sure, it may make it look like jobs and productivity have increased for a short time, but that illusion will quickly fade and we will be left with nothing but a monstrous debt to nations like China. In the end, it doesn't matter where the money goes or who got it. No matter what happened with it, the economy was going to be worse off.

The point of such a stimulus is to reduce the negative effect of a crisis at the cost of reducing the positive effects of the time after the crisis. Imagine your economy as a wave with really high amplitudes that you want to flatten: you try to shift the surplus from the next positive cycle to fill up the whole in the current negative cycle. Where the money is sent or to whom isn't really important on a macroecnomical level, as long as it stays in your economy it'll work. So far it did work, not only in the US but also in other countries. Whether it will continue to work or whether it was a morally sound decision is another question.




EO Violation

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#7 8 years ago

There is no disagreement on the point and purpose of a stimulus. I'm just astounded that more people don't know about how bad their government is ripping them off.

I remember back in 2006, when the Democrats took over the House, how Pelosi said this would be the most transparent Congress in our nation's history. Just four years later, and what happens? Healthcare bill being "revised" in closed door sessions.

If this isn't a government betraying it's people, I don't know what is.




Smitty025

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#8 8 years ago
MrFancypants;5190235So far it did work

I don't know where you live, but no. You are completely wrong, It has not worked in any way, shape or form. This is true no matter what metric you use. Unemployment has been rising uncontrollably, the markets have been consistently depressed, almost every commodity save for gold has been doing poorly, and although the industrial purchasing index (I can't think of the name for it offhand) is at a high, it's merely a temporary one. Don't get me wrong, I'm not some ignorant loser. I fully understand the Keynesian theory that this policy was adopted under, and I fully reject it. Those peak and throughs happen in any normally, properly functioning economy. The problem is when the government intervenes in situations like this. The problem isn't the trough, or the recession, it's the peak or the boom. The recession is merely the correction for wrong decisions made during the peak.

Essentially our economy is like a drug addict. Right now we're going through withdrawal symptoms. Instead of letting us suffer through them, the government has seen fit to give us a shot of heroin to ease the pain. Will this help in long run? Absolutely not. Think about how this crisis came about. Credit was easy to get, the Fed made interest rates so low that banks could offer loans to just about anyone. When you combine this with the fact that banks no longer had to make sure loans could be repaid it was recipe for disaster. Banks no longer had to worry about who got a loan. If it defaulted either Frannie or Freddy would pay, or even before it defaulted the bank would have rolled it up in some way and sold it to an investment bank as a AAA rated investment. The best, and most sickening part about this to me is no-doc loans. People could get mortgages with virtually no information about their income or financial stability. Many people even considered their increase in housing prices to be income. So, for example, some people would apply for a mortgage on a $250k house, under the belief that the house would be worth maybe $500k in 3 years or so. So, on these no-doc loans, they would claim their income to be $100k a year. This is under their belief that their house would increase in value by at least $100k a year. Isn't that perverse? Now, to be fair, it's true that these loans as a percentage of total loans is small. The problem is when you look at these loans as a percentage of total money loaned out, they are huge.

Anyway, I digress, my point is not how the recession started, it's how the "stimulus" won't work. Ignoring the fact that there should be no stimulus, lets start with my first point: the government cannot create jobs. Don't get me wrong, the government can create work. That's not hard at all, just repair a few roads, maybe fight a war in the Middle East, and voilà, work created. Now, what happens when that road is repaired or that war is over? Well, whoever was hired to do that work is now fired and out of a job unless there are other jobs. The problem is that the government cannot create other jobs. It's already done all it can.

Moving on, the only options the government has are raise taxes or print money (sort of, they don't even have to actually print it anymore, isn't that cool!). Now, raising taxes is never popular at any time, never mind during a recession, so that option is out. Well, it looks like we'll have to print some money. Now what does this mean? In a word: Inflation. Many people believe that inflation is tracked by the Consumer Price Index, or CPI. This is true, but it's a lagging indicator. Essentially the CPI is an economic view of inflation, but inflation is really a monetary phenomenon, different from economic issues. Now inflation is a tax, albeit a hidden one, on the middle and lower classes especially. So now the Fed prints money and gives it to banks at a ridiculously low interest rate. Or hell, it doesn't even print it and just electronically alters their balance sheet. Anyway, it does this and encourages banks to give out more loans. Hold on. Wasn't easy, cheap, credit and an ability to easily acquire loans the cause of this whole problem. No matter, LOAN MONEY!! IT WILL SAVE THE ECONOMY!!!!

I'm sorry, but I've been up for about 24 hours now and I am decently hungover. I am very interested in providing you not only a more detailed summary of not only the causes of this current economic situation but also why the governmentally proposed solutions won't work, but to be honest I'm burned out right now.




MrFancypants Forum Admin

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#9 8 years ago

EO Violation;5190276There is no disagreement on the point and purpose of a stimulus. I'm just astounded that more people don't know about how bad their government is ripping them off.

I remember back in 2006, when the Democrats took over the House, how Pelosi said this would be the most transparent Congress in our nation's history. Just four years later, and what happens? Healthcare bill being "revised" in closed door sessions.

If this isn't a government betraying it's people, I don't know what is.

Politicians that don't keep their election promises? Shocking :)

I can understand why they'd rather talk about healthcare behind closed doors though, a reasonable open debate about such a topic is a bit difficult with all that partisanship in the US. The only way you'll get concessions out of anyone in such a climate is if you do it without cameras recording everything.




Smitty025

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#10 8 years ago
EO Violation;5190276There is no disagreement on the point and purpose of a stimulus.

That's a very diplomatic statement: it uses a lot of words, and yet says nothing. You're right there is no debate about why the stimulus bill was passed, but why it was passed is completely irrelevant. All that matter is whether it will effectively do anything to fix the economy. That is where the true debate lies, and that is where I believe the stimulus fails spectacularly.