Papal Infallibility 11 replies

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Pb2Au

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4th October 2004

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#1 13 years ago

newadvent.orgThe Vatican Council has defined as "a divinely revealed dogma" that "the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra -- that is, when in the exercise of his office as pastor and teacher of all Christians he defines, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, a doctrine of faith or morals to be held by the whole Church -- is, by reason of the Divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer wished His Church to be endowed in defining doctrines of faith and morals; and consequently that such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are irreformable of their own nature (ex sese) and not by reason of the Church's consent" (Densinger no. 1839 -- old no. 1680). For the correct understanding of this definition it is to be noted that: [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Catechism of the Catholic Church]"The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful -- who confirms his brethren in the faith -- he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals

How can any man be infallible? While this man is a priest, any dogmatic statements he issues are subject to scrutiny, but through the simple election to a higher office all similar statements become irrefutably correct? That makes no sense. Also, popes such as Urban II and his successors advocated the use of extreme violence against muslims during the Crusades, offering a plenary indulgence (absolution for any sins ever committed during the life of the recipient) for all who aided the Church. Richard the Lionheart received such an indulgence for slaughtering thousands of unarmed Saracen prisoners-of-war in 1191. Surely this attitude is contradictory to what popes would decree today, even if they were in the same situation. The Church maintains, however, that no spiritual or moral teaching is infallible. Your thoughts, gentlemen (and possibly ladies)?




Artie Bucco

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27th April 2003

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#2 13 years ago

Someone want's to earn themselves an excommunication. Altough as a non-practicing baptized Catholic i agree with you.




Inyri Forge VIP Member

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15th March 2005

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#3 13 years ago

I'd have to agree. I don't see how someone elected by his peers is ordained by God and has mystical cosmic powers. I mean, if I was elected Queen of the Universe, I still wouldn't know everything.




Mr. Matt VIP Member

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17th June 2002

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#4 13 years ago

Perhaps the idea is that the Great and All-Powerful Bearded One urged his peers to elect him, thus, essentially, making him divinely ordained?

Inyri ForgeI'd have to agree. I don't see how someone elected by his peers is ordained by God and has mystical cosmic powers. I mean, if I was elected Queen of the Universe, I still wouldn't know everything.

Sure you would. Who'd argue with you? Any dissenters could be executed on a whim. For instance, if you said the Earth was flat, and somebody came to you with evidence that suggested the Earth was, in fact, round, you can simply execute him and anyone who agreed with him, destroy the evidence, and BAM, you're still all-knowing. Not that I'm alluding to anything in particular with that one.




SpiderGoat

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5th December 2003

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#5 13 years ago
PB2AUYour thoughts, gentlemen (and possibly ladies)?

Thank the Gregorian Reforms.




Psychokenesis

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16th October 2003

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#6 13 years ago

This item appeared in the first edition only of the New York Times, December 7, 1942, the same day Nazi Germany's ally Japan attacked Pearl Harbor

'War Prayer' For Reich Catholic Bishops at Fulda Ask Blessing and Vicotry

by telephone to the New York Times

Fulda, Germany, Dec. 6

The conference of German Catholic Bishops assembled in Fulda has recommended the inroduction of a special "war prayer" which is to be read at the begining and end of all divine services.

The prayer imlores Providence to bless German arms ith vitory and grant protection to the live and health of all soldiers The Bishops further instructed Catholic clergy to keep and remember in a special Sunday sermon at least once a month German soldiers "on land, on sea and in the air

So its not the first time the Catholic Church excerised its influence to achieve a man made goal.




Pb2Au

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4th October 2004

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#7 13 years ago

But that was an issue made by bishops and/or priests. It has no standing as a doctrine made by the pope, therefore infallibility does not apply to it.




Admiral Donutz VIP Member

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9th December 2003

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#8 13 years ago

It's laughable really, no single person can claim total and absolute wisdom. Every person has character, a personality and therefor will always be biased in one way or the other. The person that is always correct in what he or she thinks, says and does doesn't exist and never will.

Well you could count in all the dictators that this world had, but in the end nobody has the correct answer to everything. Every person has it flaws including the pope. He wasn't elected by god but by his fellow human bings with the same believes as him.




Psychokenesis

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16th October 2003

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#9 13 years ago

yeah that was just a tast...I looked in the Catholic Encylopeida and the list of Pope wrongs are extensive....

Just say the word...




xRealNinjuzx

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29th November 2005

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#10 13 years ago

It's funny how anyone would consider a man that is picked from a group of other men infallible just because a group of people elected him. Does that make George Bush infallible? SWEET LORD NO.




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