Pro vs Anti - Death Penalty 19 replies

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Andron Taps Forum Mod

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#1 6 years ago

This is a new section in the pub where you, the forumites, get to vote and debate on whether the death penalty should remain or go away.

(Please excuse the low-quality audio.)

If you're going to vote, it is MANDATORY that you provide a logical, well thought out argument for why you chose your answer.

If you're not going to get your feet wet, then there's no point. Also, as a side-thing, if I really like your argument (regardless of side), I'll give you rep for it.

So,


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



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#2 6 years ago

We humans are quite good at making mistakes. Many people who have been convicted have later been released. Until we achieve 100% confidence in our ability to judge cases, we shouldn't be killing.

As for the most oft-used "pro" argument of cost, the death penalty won't make a dent, at least in the US. Most people in jail and prison are there for minor crimes, ie drug possession, robbery, they like. Very few are there for crimes such as grand theft and murder. Killing people to save money is also rather dishonorable.

From a more personal viewpoint, killing them releases them from suffering. I believe when you're dead, you're dead. That's it. Why set them free if they're being punished? Even from a Christian perspective, as is popular here, they could easily repent and accept Jesus, and thereby end up in Heaven after they're dead. What kind of punishment is that?

If the person has the ability to cause more harm, such as escape and kill, then they should be killed. I think killing should only be done in self defense, not in retribution.




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#3 6 years ago

There is no need for the death penalty. Killing someone who killed someone to show killing is wrong isn't really the best message. =p

If we re-evaluated our prisoners, we'd find most of them are in jail for harmless crimes (possession of drugs, drug trafficking, etc), or even wrongly accused. Prison should be for people who are at the time, a threat to society; and they should be put into some sort of rehab center, not an institution where they never learn how to thrive in society. Prison expenses is not a problem if we do what I just said.

A big red flag: what if an innocent is sentenced to death? That right there should be reason enough to dismantle the death sentence, because it happens all the time.

If the person truly is a threat, they should be sent into something like Arkham Asylum. I'm pretty sure there is a treatment for psychopathy out there, if we kill off all of our psychopaths we'll never find it.

I could go on, but we've had this thread 100 times before I'm sure.

Edit: Obankobi stole my argument from MSN. =p




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#4 6 years ago

I should note the argument he is referring to is the cost one. I already had the fallibility one!




Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#5 6 years ago

The cheaper you make enforcing the law the more totalitarian regimes can be. We have too many bad laws on the books, creating too much unnecessary social discontent that would be better addressed by altering the law than by killing people.

As a deterrent, it just doesn't work.

We also make too many mistakes.

About the only benefit I can see for it is if you were to force the cost down to the point where you had hardly any checks – the judge points at someone and you take him outside and blow his head off with a shotgun; which considering the standard of justice we have is going to have a lot of (mostly) innocent people killed. Or the argument that criminals deserve it.

I've never found the idea of giving people what you think they deserve dreadfully convincing. That's between them and god, if there is one. There's certainly an argument that being a vengeful sort of person persuades people to stop fucking with you – but that's the deterrence argument again, and we already know that doesn't work.

So, the death penalty isn't something I'd seriously endorse. If you do need to keep someone away from society you can lock them up forever instead.




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#6 6 years ago

I voted anti. Which is ironic, because I am pro death penalty. I’m just not pro state. Which is who would ultimately wield such force. If someone breaks into your castle, threatens your life or those of your family. That’s a good case for a lethal engagement. War, and I mean real war, not privatized ones by nation-corps or ideologies but defense against foreign aggressors. Again in this case, if it’s between you or them, there's no debate. The death penalty as I see it, is killing to save and in my opinion, its reasonable.

After the fact, with captured criminals things get complicated. Would it be justice to kill a caged animal? Like a feral dog or wolf for something it has done, or is possibly capable of later? Maybe, maybe not, depending on your attitudes. So then, is it the act itself or and reverence for nature that decides the dogs fate? So with the man or woman, how is it much different? Do we sentence people to death for fear of their future behavior, out of vengeance for past behavior, or a combination of both and if so by what evidential standards? On the words of a single eyewitness account, or thru overwhelming video & forensic evidence?

For myself I’ve never been able to reconcile these questions, so I have no real answer for you. I think it could be done, reasonably but not with today’s level of fallibility and corruption. It’s a paradox. What I know for certain. Is that I’m pro death in instances where immediate action saves lives. Not dished out by some “authority” or “tribal” mentality, but by anyone in defense of another. The killing of caged animals. Well, I leave that problem to societies ever falling standards.




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#7 6 years ago

I really hope the guy who voted Pro is going to give a reason for it =p


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



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#8 6 years ago

I hope the guy who voted pro is going to give us a reason why =p


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#9 6 years ago

Why did you make the poll private if you wanted people to give reasons? There's no way to enforce the mandatory nature that way....




Andron Taps Forum Mod

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#10 6 years ago

I meant to make it public, but I forgot, and sadly I can't now =p

But I did mention that I wanted people to state their reasons.


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



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