Proof that the earth is young 63 replies

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Greenvalv

Trekkie At Large.....

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26th April 2004

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#1 14 years ago

(Guess I can legally restart this thread) Ok, so you think y'all had answers for the Polonium bit, huh? Well think on this, how come the greatest geological minds of today cannot answer to this, and are still looking for an answer to this day!




El Hombre del Fuego

The Three of Swords

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11th August 2003

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#2 14 years ago

Need more info to prove our point, man. Link an article or something, or copy/paste from your old thread.




D.Sporky!

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#3 14 years ago

Ok, you all may know that comets don't last forever...they only last a few thousand years (about 10,000 perhaps)...well, if the universe is billions of years old, why are there still comets?




V0rtex

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#4 14 years ago

Because: 1. Comets last longer than that. Ever heard of Haley's (sp?) Comet?




colonel_bob

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#5 14 years ago

In our solar system, far beyond Pluto's orbit, there are two masses of cold bodies of ice and rock. They are called the Oort cloud and the Kuiper Belt. Every now and then something (like another comet) comes along and messes with these bodies, throwing them into a highly eliptical orbit. Once the near the sun, the give off their tail or evaporating gass and become a comet. They will eventually burn up, but there are more to take its place.




D.Sporky!

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#6 14 years ago

Oh yes...sorry, i admit, that was a bad point. (I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong :p)

Here's something from a creation evangelist's web site.

Evidences >From Earth:

The decaying magnetic field limits earth's age to less than 10,000 years old. The volume of lava on earth divided by its rate of efflux gives a number of only a few million years, not billions. I believe that during the Flood, while "the fountains of the deep were broken up," most of the earth's lava was deposited rapidly. Dividing the amount of various minerals in the ocean by their influx rate gives only a few thousand years of accumulation. The amount of Helium 4 in the atmosphere, divided by the formation rate on earth, gives only 175, 000 years. (God may have created the earth with some helium here which would reduce the age more.) The erosion rate of the continents is such that they would erode to sea level in less than 14,000,000 years (destroying all old fossils). Topsoil formation rates indicate only a few thousand years of formation. Niagara Falls' erosion rate (approx. 2 feet per year) indicates an age of less than 10,000 years. (Don't forget Noah's Flood could have eroded half of the seven-mile-long Niagara River gorge in a few hours as the flood waters receded through the soft sediments). Incredible pressure found in oil and gas wells indicates they have been there less than 15,000 years. The size of the Mississippi River delta, divided by the rate the mud is being deposited, gives an age of less than 30,000 years. (The Flood in Noah's day could have washed 80% of the mud out there in a few hours or days, so 4400 years is a reasonable time for the delta to form). The slowing spin of the earth limits its age to less than the "billions of years" called for by the theory of evolution. Only a small amount of sediment is now on the ocean floor, indicating only a few thousand years of accumulation. This embarrassing fact explains why the continental drift theory is vitally important to evolutionists. The largest stalactites and flowstone formations in the world could have formed in about 4400 years. The Sahara desert is expanding. It could easily have been formed in a few thousand years. See any earth science textbook. The oceans are getting saltier. If they were billions of years old, they would be much saltier than they are now. Go to Top

Evidences >From History

The oldest known historical records are less than 6000 years old. Many ancient cultures have stories of an original creation in the recent past and a worldwide Flood. Over 250 of these Flood legends are now known. Biblical dates add up to about 6000 years. Go to Top

Evidences >From Space

The Shrinking Sun limits the earth-sun relationship to less than "millions of years." The sun is losing both mass and diameter. Changing the mass would upset the fine gravitational balance that keeps the earth just the right distance for life to survive. The existence of short-period comets indicates the universe is less than 10,000 years old Fossil Meteorites are very rare in layers other than the top layers of the earth. This indicates that the layers were not exposed for millions of years as is currently being taught in school textbooks. The moon is receding a few inches each year. A few million years ago the moon would have been so close that the tides would have destroyed the earth twice a day. The moon contains considerable quantities of U-236 and Th-230, both short lived isotopes that would have been long gone if the moon were billions of years old. The existence of great quantities of space dust, which by the Pointing-Robertson effect would have been vacuumed out of our solar system in a few thousand years, indicates the solar system is young. At the rate many star clusters are expanding, they could not have been traveling for more than a few thousand years. Saturn's rings are still unstable, indicating they are not millions of years old. Jupiter and Saturn are cooling off rather rapidly. They are losing heat twice as fast as they gain it from the sun. They cannot be billions of years old. Jupiter's moon "Io" is losing matter to Jupiter. It cannot be billions of years old. It appears that the stars in the centers of many galaxies are moving faster than the stars at the outer edges. This would make the galaxies lose their spiral shape and spin into a homogeneous mass if they were billions of years old. Among other factors to consider, one is that all the ancient astronomers from 2000 years ago recorded that Sirius was a red giant and now it is a white dwarf. The life cycle of stars needs to be restudied, with the textbooks in astronomy stating one hundred thousand years are required for a star to "evolve" form a red giant to a white dwarf. In fact the Hubble Space Telescope is aiding creationists as opposed to the evolutionists as it continues to discredit their theories. You can see just about any edition of Astronomy magazine published over the last few years for verification of this.

Go to Top

Evidences >From Biology

The current population of earth (6 billion souls) could easily be generated from eight people (survivors of the Flood) in less than 4000 years. The oldest coral reef is about 4200 years old. The oldest living tree in the world is 4300 years old. DNA is 99.9% alike in all people. All things reproduce "after his kind." As simple as this is, remember all biology textbooks teach that everything that is alive today arose from something else through evolutionary processes. There is no evidence for this. But plenty of evidence that everything reproduces as the Bible states "after his kind."




colonel_bob

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#7 14 years ago

I can not believe that just happened. I had all your statements niceley quoted, with niceley quoted rebuttals to them. Then my internet connection died and got rid of all my typing. All of it. Oh well, I'll do it again in the morning, I'm to tired now. :yawn: Expect a post from me in 10-12 hours.




D.Sporky!

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#8 14 years ago
colonel_bobI can not believe that just happened. I had all your statements niceley quoted, with niceley quoted rebuttals to them. Then my internet connection died and got rid of all my typing. All of it. Oh well, I'll do it again in the morning, I'm to tired now. :yawn: Expect a post from me in 10-12 hours.

Oh man, that sux. Sorry to hear that, I konw what it's like ;).




Kerian VIP Member

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#9 14 years ago

Evidences >From Earth:

The decaying magnetic field limits earth's age to less than 10,000 years old.

as with many things in science the rate of change of fields is rarely a constant factor but in many instances an exponential process.

The volume of lava on earth divided by its rate of efflux gives a number of only a few million years, not billions. I believe that during the Flood, while "the fountains of the deep were broken up," most of the earth's lava was deposited rapidly.

just what is that actually supposed to mean? there are large amounts of various lavas all over the world. particularly in the ocean.

Dividing the amount of various minerals in the ocean by their influx rate gives only a few thousand years of accumulation.

That is at present rates there is nothing to say that these rates havent been changing. the dead sea has far higher mineral content but that is a tiny sea compared to any of the others and drains a large area. also there is not just deposition of minerals in the seas there is also output. The zechstein sea was a good example of that it is now gone and all we have are the mineral deposits left from the sea evaporating. eventually something similar will most likely happen to the dead sea locking up more minerals in the crust again. http://www.nedmag.nl/index.cfm?pid=42

The amount of Helium 4 in the atmosphere, divided by the formation rate on earth, gives only 175, 000 years. (God may have created the earth with some helium here which would reduce the age more.)

helium is lighter than air and it rises, infact it does so to such a great extent that it can and frequently does reach the escape velocity and dissapear from out atmosphere and into space.

The erosion rate of the continents is such that they would erode to sea level in less than 14,000,000 years (destroying all old fossils).

This statement does not take into account isostatic readjustment which is the earths crust either rising or lowering itself with respect to how much mass is on the surface.(just like a iceburg if you chop off the top above the water it will readjust so that it still has 9/10ths below and 1/10th above. this is what the crust does only slower.) There are also different areas of deposition and erosion, this is why we have vallies and not just flat land everywhere you cannot take an average for the entire continent and say it all erodes by this much as it doesn't it also depends on the rock's that it is eroding through

Topsoil formation rates indicate only a few thousand years of formation.

This could be linked to your handy erosion statistic, as you do not just have deposition but also erosion thus not getting a final topsoil which can never be disturbed untill it has been fossilised, this is how we have fossils of plants from the soil they died on being fossilised.

Niagara Falls' erosion rate (approx. 2 feet per year) indicates an age of less than 10,000 years. (Don't forget Noah's Flood could have eroded half of the seven-mile-long Niagara River gorge in a few hours as the flood waters receded through the soft sediments).

those statistics are actually flawed as there was a time when that particular river when it eroded several metres in an hour due to the rock is was passing through and this was not during the time of the great flood. this emphasises the point that rates in erosion are rarely if ever constant. Also all that says is that the collorado river has been there for 10,000 years not that the earth has been there for 10,000 years, for drainage patterns change over time, there are a vast numer of examples of this all over the world including many many dried up river beds that have been "extinct" for many years.

Incredible pressure found in oil and gas wells indicates they have been there less than 15,000 years.

how is that incredible pressure indicates they have only been there for 15,000 years? is it too high or too low for your figures? If it is too high which seems likely here is the reason. There is a layer of impermeable rock which acts as a cap on the oil and gas supply. as we know impermeable means that none of the gas or oil can escape and as more is gradually formed/ coalesces into the peak the pressure will get greater and greater, and as there is a sizeable weight of rock above this cap rock it is highly unlikely that this cap rock will break and let the pressure fall.

The size of the Mississippi River delta, divided by the rate the mud is being deposited, gives an age of less than 30,000 years. (The Flood in Noah's day could have washed 80% of the mud out there in a few hours or days, so 4400 years is a reasonable time for the delta to form).

so what? all that means is that the mississippi has been depositing there for 30,000 years as with rivers, as they feed deltas, the place where a delta occures can change with time so the mississippi will not have been depositing there for the whole time the earth has been around. besides the world as we know it landmass wise has not always been so how could the mississippi have been? besides i have found a figure for the date of the flood being "April 9619 BC!" this makes the earth older than the 9 thoudand limmit and spoils most of your arguments with the flood waters. link for flood date http://www.unknowntruths.com/noah.html

The slowing spin of the earth limits its age to less than the "billions of years" called for by the theory of evolution.

how does this? the earth could be acting like a gyroscope and it does seem as if it is, due to the fluctuations in it's axis being relatively predictable and around a true axis, and as a gyroscope slows down it fluctuates mroe and more and slows down even quicker untill it is stopped and unmoving. another case where the rate is not a constant but most likely exponential.

Only a small amount of sediment is now on the ocean floor, indicating only a few thousand years of accumulation. This embarrassing fact explains why the continental drift theory is vitally important to evolutionists.

actually the amount of sediment on the sea floor is not a constant and changes getting greater and greater from mid ocean ridges to the destructive plate margins, also there is the fact that these sediments are not several thoudans years old, they tent to get into the millions or hundreds of millions. seafloor spreading is a well known and recognised idea, it is known that the sea floor does spread, Iceland for example is sinking by 2cm a year into the sea yet is actually getting larger due to the amount of lava which is extruded as part of seafloor spreading, as Iceland is on the junction of 3 constructive plate margins this is comprehensive proof for seafloor spreading, as is the grading of the sediments on the sea floor not all being one thickness.

The largest stalactites and flowstone formations in the world could have formed in about 4400 years.

But the caves that they form in musst have been eroded by something previously probably an underground stream, this would stop either forming untill the river has died, besides that is all "KNOWN" examples of these.that is also not taking into account the variations in conditions of the area of formation. http://www.howecaverns.com/kids_stuff/cavegeo.php

The Sahara desert is expanding. It could easily have been formed in a few thousand years. See any earth science textbook.

and the sahara has been a constant feature in the world for all time? doubtful deserts are forming elsewhere today, does this mean that the earth is 1 day old? no deserts change size and position so are not constant.

The oceans are getting saltier. If they were billions of years old, they would be much saltier than they are now.

covered higher up

Go to Top

Evidences >From History

The oldest known historical records are less than 6000 years old.

all this means is that humans have been writing the events that have happened in records have been doing so. We have had the darkages in this time where virtually nothing was written in records. human written records mean nothing.

Many ancient cultures have stories of an original creation in the recent past and a worldwide Flood. Over 250 of these Flood legends are now known.

this is because they are trying to explain how the earth formed, they are all rather different so why is one more likely than the other? or do you believe a giant sat down and created the mountain ranges in china? The existance of a large flood is not refuted and has been backed up by geology the only difference is the scale of the flood in the bible and the scale seen in the rock layers. Biblical dates add up to about 6000 years. [b] The bible was written by man, man has been writing records for a while now perhaps 6 thousand years, no-one would know what had come 3 generations before without records which have not always been written therefore it is understanable it does not go back further as no-one knew what happened before.

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Evidences >From Space

The Shrinking Sun limits the earth-sun relationship to less than "millions of years." The sun is losing both mass and diameter. Changing the mass would upset the fine gravitational balance that keeps the earth just the right distance for life to survive.

how does it? in the past the earth was much hotter than it is today but the sun is relatively stable and is not losing mass or diameter at a constant rate over these sorts of timeframes.

The existence of short-period comets indicates the universe is less than 10,000 years old

this has been explained earlier in the thread

Fossil Meteorites are very rare in layers other than the top layers of the earth. This indicates that the layers were not exposed for millions of years as is currently being taught in school textbooks.

meteorite impacts are not extremely common today and with no map of where they have happened in the past it would be hard to ever discover a minor one that has since been infilled. there is evidence to say that the crater in the gulf of mexico is 65 million years old which kinda dates it a bit over the young eath.

i'll get back to refuting the rest later.




LIGHTNING [NL]

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#10 14 years ago

What's all this I hear about the sun shriking? I've always been told it's expanding! In fact, this here covers why it does so: It is true that the Sun is very slowly expanding and getting brighter right now. The reason for this is that as it is burning hydrogen to helium in the core the amount of hydrogen there gradually decreases. In order to keep the energy generation rate the same, the temperature and density in the core must rise. This has the effect that the energy can flow to the surface a little faster and it puffs up the outer layers (as well slightly brightening the Sun).

Also, and interesting article about why the sun-is-shrinking argument is bullocks: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/young-earth/specific_arguments/sun_shrinking.html Another one (even better, but more difficult): http://www.asa3.org/ASA/topics/Astronomy-Cosmology/PSCF9-86VanTill.html