Right to die 9 replies

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Andron Taps Forum Mod

Faktrl is Best Pony

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#1 2 years ago

I realize this is a touchy topic to some, but I think it needs to be addressed.

So, the typical scenario that begs such a question of rights is usually someone who is in severe pain, often those who are over the age of 60, but that also extends to cancer patients who are younger.  My questions is, if someone who is in as much pain requests doctor-assisted suicide, should that person be legally obligated to such treatment?  And yes, obviously I understand legality is no good to a dead person; I'm asking if the doctor should be legally allowed to euthanize a patient if the proper requirements and channels are satisfied?


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#2 2 years ago

I honestly don't see why there needs to be any debate around this.

Verified informed consent is largely a solved problem, we have procedures for it, other countries have procedures for it specifically applied to this issue. The only way that becomes a problem is if you make it one on purpose.

Doctors should not be required to do it. If they don't want to kill someone, that's fine. Their choice. But there are people who are willing to do so, and the choice to end one's life should be there for people. Keeping folks around past all hope of recovery, when the only thing they have left in their life is pain, is an atrocity against human dignity.

I remember my grandfather lying in a hospital bed, begging everyone around him to kill him. Had I been a less selfish person I'd have done it - I feel a twinge of guilt even now for not doing so. You wouldn't let your fucking dog go out like that.

Switzerland seems to have the procedure for this down pretty well, we should do what they do.




Andron Taps Forum Mod

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#3 2 years ago

Unfortunately it is still somewhat of a taboo here in the states and only a few states have made it legal.


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



Serio VIP Member

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#4 2 years ago

It's a bit of a problematic situation. Often, people in pain aren't "right in the head". Procedures need to be absolutely in place, right down to questionnaires, responses, and psychiatric evaluation. 




Superfluous Curmudgeon VIP Member

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#5 2 years ago

I think I'm with Serio on this one. It's a tough call when when a person is in severe physical / emotional pain that can be cured. This sort of pain can easily prevent a person from thinking rationally / logically. But when the people around the person - namely the doctors - determine that there is very little chance of recovery, that's a different story. In such cases euthanization is probably the better option, should the patient decide that's what he/she wants.




c0mpliant VIP Member

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#6 2 years ago
Verified informed consent is largely a solved problem

This is it exactly. Its not something which many people are against it who will be around in 20 years. I also think anyone who has seen a relative either suffer tremendously in pain or watch them slowly lose their mind understand that the issue isn't as much of a moral issue for them anymore.




Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#7 2 years ago

I tend to be a bit more allowing of this sort of thing than others, perhaps. But when the situation is one where we have such clearly demonstrable suffering, that's a decent enough starting point. We can decide about the more difficult cases; whether people with persistent long lasting depression should get access to the suicide service; later. But right now I think we can at least agree that people with terminal cancer, blind and deaf people who want to die, situations like that, where the only future they have is one of pain and/or incredible dependency... it's cruel to keep them around against their will. 

It's not a question of whether those people are going to live or die, it's just one of how much pain and misery they're going to suffer while they're dying. If people want reasonable and timely psychological assessments as part of that - (And they'd have to be reasonable - you can't judge someone in pain by the same mental standards as someone not in pain. None of this crap about how suicidal ideation, lack of hope for the future etc, is itself symptomatic of depression) - then that's preferable to folks not having the option at all.




Barbas

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#8 2 years ago

I think I can guess at why such a simple right is still denied to so many people, and who is once again standing in the way of it. If more bed-ridden patients could request the right to be released from their agony, who does that leave to be converted in hospital wards? There goes the captive audience.

My opinion on this isn't that different from any of the ones already stated. I don't think this should be seen as taboo by those who do not possess a disturbing sense of self-righteousness or even sadism.


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Aeia

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#9 2 years ago

Your life, is yours. As long as you don't actively offend anyone or cause harm/damage, you are free to do whatever you want to do.

Doctors might not be obliged to take out a suffering patient, but shouldn't be legally forbidden from it, either.

Ethics are a strange thing.




Admiral Donutz VIP Member

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#10 2 years ago

If a person is sane of mind and makes an informed, not spur of the moment, decision I see no reason at all to refuse assisting their suicide.  Or people may declare so in advance via a will, allowing those who may have ended up in a vegative state to be granted their wish of a suicide rather then wasting years as a human plant.  If we can save people from suffering, or even save others from being affected by a messy or tragic suicide, we are doing the people a favour. 

Indeed your life is yours, do with it as you wish. But obviouly people need to be protected from themselves for some extent, so that they won't do something they would almost certainly have regreted down the line. 

Edit: this also reminds me of a case that made headlines here. There was a terminaly ill patient (cancer). This person was suffering, but for reason which I cannot recall (could have been something as simple that there still was a small chanche of winning from the cancer?) the normal euthanasia route was not possible. The patient spoke with his GP, the GP agreed to this man's wishes and gave him an overdosis of morphine which indeed took the life of the patient. The assistant of the GP informed authorities, his medical license was temporary suspended and police and staff from the justice department showed up at the GPs door late in the evening to question him and search his house. In the next few weeks he was questioned multple times. The GP, feeling like being treated like a murderer could not handle it and commit suicide. To me this is a signal that the Dutch euthanasia legislation isn't quite perfect yet.