Sarkozy and the Romani 10 replies

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Commissar MercZ

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#1 8 years ago

In the past few weeks, Sarkozy's handling of the Romani (gypsy) issue has become more and more controversial.

In Mid-August policies were initiated by Sarkozy's government targeting the Romani. Typically scapegoated and seen as a source of crime and leeching in many parts of Europe, Sarkozy has turned his government's attention to the Romani camps in France, citing drug trafficking, prostitution, and child abuse as a reason.

His law specifically targets and singles out the Romani people and deports them out of the country. In Sarkozy's case, this is Romania and Bulgaria. Had the government been using cattle cars, it would have been similar to Vichy France's own policy towards the Romani. The law also contains provisions to strip citizenship from any Romani who assaults a police officer.

French forces have been moving in on settlements and breaking them apart, and proceeding to deport the Roma, some of whom many not know the language of the countries they are being sent to. Much less in places further east in Europe where hatred towards Roma are more pronounced.

Of course a more nuanced and peaceful approach to dismantling the Romani camps could have been approached. Why the rush with Sarkozy? In light of the recent dismal performances of his UMP in regional elections, plummeting numbers in opinion polls, a poor response to his austerity measures, Sarkozy has begun embracing a common tactic- pandering to nationalist sentiment and appearing to be "tough" on crime and immigration.

Taking cues out of the ultra-nationalist Le Pen and the Action Francaise's playbook, he has been increasingly focusing on these matters while not seriously looking at France's economy, hoping to gain political support by attacking a very easy and convenient target.

Whether or not his political "investment" will pay off is yet to be seen, but it is a shame to see a country that often prides itself on human rights and development falling into this. In the process the Romani affected have their lives destroyed and once again fall into the dubious position of being disliked across Europe.

Sarkozy's policies have been criticized by the EU (though member nations have also done similar problems), members of his cabinet, and obviously the opposition parties though only a meek one at best. For the most part the main opposition parties have not done anything meaningful, worried their political fortunes might be damaged by being bludgeoned by nationalism. A catholic priest returned the medal awardend to him by Sarkozy citing disgust with his action.

His Prime Minister relayed some discontent with the policy, and the foreign minister is considering his resignation. Some protests against the policy took place, numbering at least 70,000 for a recent one across the country, but not enough to shake Sarkozy from his actions who maintains he is doing this for the good of the republic.

It is believed that Sarkozy already has plans for similar laws, singling out North Africans chiefly.

"'We, French of North African descent, are very proud to officially hand over to Roma the role of the scapegoat responsible for all of France's ills ... Good luck to them!'" ~French Defense minister reading a tongue in cheek message from his friend to Sarkozy

Version of a common poster at the protests, comparing Sarkozy to Petain sarko%20petain%20.jpg




Admiral Donutz VIP Member

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#2 8 years ago

He might run into trouble with the EU parliament though. What he's doing is rather controversial. And I doubt it will really solve any problems, at best it might been the problems are moved elsewhere. The Romani, after having crossed the border, can legally easily return to France again... So all I see is him taking the populist route rather then doing something more constructive: boosting the development (and acceptance) of certain neighnoorhoods, population etc.




Huffardo

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#3 8 years ago

If the Romanian and Bulgarian gypsies in France are anything like those who come here in the summers, I can't say I any longer have a word of compassion for them. The free movement of criminals is one of the greatest problems the EU has to face, and I'm glad France is doing something, even though the results are bound to be very poor with no borders in place.

MercZ, I rarely disagree with you, but have you actually experienced the gypsy invasion from Rumania, or are you just believing what the forces for unlimited immigration in Europe tell you?




Rikupsoni

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#4 8 years ago

I recommend a BBC documentary called This World: Gypsy Child Thieves. It also covers the Romani "immigration" more extensively. It can't go on like that.

A lot of the movement is based on organised crime, in that document you can see how the dealers drive Mercedes-Benz SUVs around their palaces in Romania while they send thieves to European cities. Gypsies living under bridges in French cities is not a good thing for the French, nor Gypsies themselves.

Good thing something is done to the problem. Sarkozy has the balls to step up despite not being "politically correct". European society unfortunately is not based on living under bridges and moving all the time, stealing, having no education and getting children when you are 16.

Our best chance is to get Romania, Bulgaria and EU do something to make the Gypsies life better there where they live.




MrFancypants Forum Admin

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#5 8 years ago

Didn't most of these Romani migrate legally to France? In that case I don't really see how deporting them is justified.




Embee

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#6 8 years ago
Commissar MercZ;5389984 a country that often prides itself on human rights

... of white people They're as much human right "defenders" as Jews are Muslim ...




Rikupsoni

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#7 8 years ago
MrFancypants;5390130Didn't most of these Romani migrate legally to France? In that case I don't really see how deporting them is justified.

What would be other solution? Let them build a slum in Paris and steal 1000 credit cards a day? Or perhaps the French people should raise their taxes to provide a full health care for every single one of them. Not really a tough question, I prefer realism.

The worst solution for them is to move to France and have no other opportunies than steal and beg.




MrFancypants Forum Admin

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#8 8 years ago

Rikupsoni;5390135What would be other solution? Let them build a slum in Paris and steal 1000 credit cards a day? Or perhaps the French people should raise their taxes to provide a full health care for every single one of them. Not really a tough question, I prefer realism.

The worst solution for them is to move to France and have no other opportunies than steal and beg.

Maybe the French government should have come up with a plan to integrate migrants when they helped extend the EU and thereby allowed lots of migrants into their country. To demand a quick solution now at the cost of the migrants seems wrong, especially if the justification is something along the lines of "all Romani may be criminals". That seems more like discrimination by politicians who exploit xenophobia than an honest attempt to reduce criminality.




Commissar MercZ

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#9 8 years ago

Huffardo;5390073If the Romanian and Bulgarian gypsies in France are anything like those who come here in the summers, I can't say I any longer have a word of compassion for them. The free movement of criminals is one of the greatest problems the EU has to face, and I'm glad France is doing something, even though the results are bound to be very poor with no borders in place.

MercZ, I rarely disagree with you, but have you actually experienced the gypsy invasion from Rumania, or are you just believing what the forces for unlimited immigration in Europe tell you?

I think there's a better way to deal with this than have that specifically target people of Romani descent. Generally one shouldn't have laws or policies singling out a particular ethnicity, race, or religious group. That's the problem I'm having here. France has dealt with this issue before, last year deporting a number of Romani like usual, but not in such a blatantly racist measure like this.

And I've dealt with the type of gypsies that are common in the Middle-East. They were often blamed for stealing cattle, chicken, robberies, abductions, and an all-around air of being a mobile mafia. They would move around and made little attempt to assimilate in to the regions and stuck up camps in places, left their trash there, and would move on wherever else they could make an easy profit.

However I also think that the Romani issue can be resolved in a better fashion than what Sarkozy is doing here to save face with some of his more nationalist-oriented constituents. It also to me represents an issue that is not so much rooted in something unique to Romani but rather a broader socio-economic issue that encourages crime. The Romani people are more pronounced in this action because they are more visible to the populace. Though removing them won't solve the crime and issues that is attributed to them- another group will step in and fill their place anyways.

I haven't brought up previous deportations that France has done, but this particular wave is bordering on near racism. If they're concerned about the crime aspect there are better ways to deal with this than what they are doing currently.

What good will that do in the long run? It's the short term gain that Sarkzoy is looking at here and he's trying to find anyway to recover some of his national focus while trying to deflect attention away from some of his austerity measures.

Sarkozy is not doing this because of some genuine concern for the health of the country. He needs a quick fix for his poll numbers.




Huffardo

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#10 8 years ago

Commissar MercZ;5390229I think there's a better way to deal with this than have that specifically target people of Romani descent. Generally one shouldn't have laws or policies singling out a particular ethnicity, race, or religious group. That's the problem I'm having here. France has dealt with this issue before, last year deporting a number of Romani like usual, but not in such a blatantly racist measure like this. [/QUOTE] Political correctness rarely gets you anywhere where you want to be. Sure, France could have deported everyone with a Rumanian passport, but that would be rather mean to those Rumanians who have actually immigrated there to work.

Commissar MercZ;5390229And I've dealt with the type of gypsies that are common in the Middle-East. They were often blamed for stealing cattle, chicken, robberies, abductions, and an all-around air of being a mobile mafia. They would move around and made little attempt to assimilate in to the regions and stuck up camps in places, left their trash there, and would move on wherever else they could make an easy profit.[/QUOTE] Yeah, that sounds like the Rumanian gypsies. When on car vacation around here they don't bother with cattle or chicken though, but rather attack people on the streets and roads, break into homes and just generally pickpocket and beg. I've been targeted several times myself, so far without any losses, but I assure you these people are worse than our own gypsies (they too have attempted to rob me, but I still believe that a large number of them are decent people).

Commissar MercZ;5390229However I also think that the Romani issue can be resolved in a better fashion than what Sarkozy is doing here to save face with some of his more nationalist-oriented constituents. It also to me represents an issue that is not so much rooted in something unique to Romani but rather a broader socio-economic issue that encourages crime. The Romani people are more pronounced in this action because they are more visible to the populace. Though removing them won't solve the crime and issues that is attributed to them- another group will step in and fill their place anyways. [/QUOTE] Do you really believe that crime levels don't rise every time the Rumanian gypsies arrive in the spring? How come gypsies that have lived in the countries for generations are not targeted in what you seem to consider some sort of racist operation?

[QUOTE=Commissar MercZ;5390229]I haven't brought up previous deportations that France has done, but this particular wave is bordering on near racism. If they're concerned about the crime aspect there are better ways to deal with this than what they are doing currently.

What ways do you consider better than returning the criminals to their countries of origin and improving living conditions there? Of course the crime organizations should be destroyed too, but it would be a lot easier if their victims (yes, some of the gypsies may stay away from their homes voluntarily, but others, especially children, are forced into theft, prostitution, robberies etc) no longer had a reason to protect them.

[QUOTE=Commissar MercZ;5390229]What good will that do in the long run? It's the short term gain that Sarkzoy is looking at here and he's trying to find anyway to recover some of his national focus while trying to deflect attention away from some of his austerity measures.

Hopefully it will tell the gypsies that still haven't left that the lies of their traffickers are not true and slowly turn off the main income for Rumanian organized crime.

[QUOTE=Commissar MercZ;5390229]Sarkozy is not doing this because of some genuine concern for the health of the country. He needs a quick fix for his poll numbers.

Perhaps, but does that make a good thing bad?

BTW, you should watch that documentary Rikupsoni recommended.




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